What evidence do you have that people generally think Israel's actions are not based on self defence?
You said it yourself in post #2793, people see stopping weapons shipments to Israel as the way to stop hostilities. There's also the fact more and more people think Israel is committing genocide. As cited in poll above, 49% of Americans under 30 think so with only 24% disagreeing.
That doesn't change the fact that Israel is acting in their self defence which is supported by international law and common law and every other kind of law.
Genocide is not supported by law. Extremely dangerously delusional to think otherwise.
Genocide hasn't been established as having occurred. Israel and other countries and many people are saying Israel has not committed genocide. Israel says it is defending itself within international law. Israel has the right to defend itself under international law.
Countries that commit genocide always say that they are acting in self-defense.
Evidence of genocide is becoming undeniable. This is reflected in growing public opinion that Israel is committing genocide even in countries allied to Israel. Also reflected in ICJ case in which judges found Israel could likely be fulfilling the criteria for genocide.
Those denying the evidence are just ensuring Israel commits more atrocities. How bad do they need things to get?
Many countries don't think Israel is committing genocide. Almost every country agrees that, as all countries also have, Israel also has the right to defend itself.
Many countries don't think Israel is committing genocide. .
Many? Please list the countries that have stated Israel is not committing genocide. It shouldn't be that hard because it's an extremely short list.
You seem to have a really hard time with basic facts. It's a bit disturbing in the context of genocide denial.
If countries believed Israel was perpetrating a genocide they would be trying to stop Israel. Many countries like Canada, the U.S., Germany, etc., are saying Israel is not committing a genocide. These countries and most others know Israel has the right to defend itself.
Right, so your claim of 'many' countries is based solely on you being telepathic and not based on any evidence at all.
There actually is a clear record as South Africa brought the charge of genocide against Israel at the ICJ. Many countries welcomed that charge. 3 countries spoke out against it. That's it. And since that time, polls have shown the public in those 3 countries are more and more convinced that Israel is committing genocide. Keep denying the facts though if that helps you sleep at night.
Many countries like Canada, the U.S., Germany, etc., are saying Israel is not committing a genocide. These countries and most others know Israel has the right to defend itself.
Please provide the source where Canada has stated that Israel is not committing genocide.
Right, so your claim of 'many' countries is based solely on you being telepathic and not based on any evidence at all.
There actually is a clear record as South Africa brought the charge of genocide against Israel at the ICJ. Many countries welcomed that charge. 3 countries spoke out against it. That's it. And since that time, polls have shown the public in those 3 countries are more and more convinced that Israel is committing genocide. Keep denying the facts though if that helps you sleep at night.
Keep denying the fact that Israel has the right to defend itself like all other countries do.
Many countries like Canada, the U.S., Germany, etc., are saying Israel is not committing a genocide. These countries and most others know Israel has the right to defend itself.
Please provide the source where Canada has stated that Israel is not committing genocide.
Canada is rightfully waiting for a verdict. It has not said that Israel is committing genocide. Canada has clearly stated Israel has the right to defend itself.
Keep denying the fact that Israel has the right to defend itself like all other countries do.
Genocide isn't self-defense regardless of whether a genocidal regimes claim that self-defense is a justification or not. That's actually a very basic point and the fact you can't admit it is bizarre and disturbing.
JKR wrote:
Many countries like Canada, the U.S., Germany, etc., are saying Israel is not committing a genocide.
Please provide the source where Canada has stated that Israel is not committing genocide.
JKR wrote:
Canada is rightfully waiting for a verdict.
It really is incredible that you completely contradict yourself within two posts and act like no one has noticed. You obviously just have no interest in the truth.
Keep denying the fact that Israel has the right to defend itself like all other countries do.
Genocide isn't self-defense regardless of whether a genocidal regimes claim that self-defense is a justification or not. That's actually a very basic point and the fact you can't admit it is bizarre and disturbing.
I’m in no position to determine whether Israel has committed a genocide. I don’t trust Hamas propoganda. I oppose genocide. I oppose breaking international law. I support abiding by international law. International law prohibits genocide and supports the right of self defence.
JKR wrote:
Many countries like Canada, the U.S., Germany, etc., are saying Israel is not committing a genocide.
Please provide the source where Canada has stated that Israel is not committing genocide.
JKR wrote:
Canada is rightfully waiting for a verdict.
It really is incredible that you completely contradict yourself within two posts and act like no one has noticed. You obviously just have no interest in the truth.
My basic point is that countries like Canada, the U.S., the UK, Germany, and others say Israel has the right to defend itself. I agree that no country has said Israel has not committed genocide but there are many countries that have stated that that charge still has to be legally determined.
melovesproles, do you think Israel has the right to defend itself?
As we head for the sunset of this place, I want to give shoutouts to CMOT, NDPP, Josh, Contrianna, kropotkin, and melovesproles for their informative links and incredible analyses when it comes to world/domestic events that fail to get fair and honest coverage or discussion by our media or political parties. I have learned so much and have had my gut reactions to certain world events validated by facts and knowledgable opinions. Thank you.
Thank you.
GARY KINSMAN — LETTER OF RESIGNATION FROM PRIDE TORONTO — THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES!
Letter of Resignation from Pride Toronto: The Struggle Continues!
To : Pride Toronto Board of Directors and Executive Director, Kojo Modeste
This has been a very difficult letter to write. It is no longer possible for me to remain a member of Pride Toronto given your refusal to respond to the call from Queers in Palestine and your complete refusal to address Canadian state –and your own sponsors—direct involvement in supporting the Zionist genocide against the Palestinian people in Gaza and increasingly in the occupied territories as well.....
The student movement for Palestine intensifies struggle with wave of university encampments
The Columbia Gaza Solidarity Encampment entered its seventh day on April 23. In the early hours of the morning, students woke up to the sound of three helicopters of major news outlets flying above where they had set up their tents on the campus’s Butler Lawn.
The student movement for Palestine has been at an all-time high in the United States in response to the devastating Israeli genocide on the Gaza Strip. Thus far, Israel has massacred over 34,000 Palestinians in Gaza, over 14,000 of them children. Palestinians just recently uncovered a second mass grave after Israeli forces killed over 300 people and discarded their bodies in the assault on Nasser Hospital. Due to the targeted killings of aid workers and the strategic blockade of humanitarian aid, Gaza is on the brink of famine.
Seven days after its dramatic 4 am launch on Wednesday, April 19, the Gaza Solidarity Encampment at Columbia has become international news. Students have been organizing their own encampments in solidarity with Gaza across the country, inspired by the struggles of Columbia students, many of whom have been mass arrested, suspended, and evicted from student housing as a result of their participation in the encampment.
Students have thus far launched encampments at universities across the country including the University of Maryland, the University of North Carolina, the University of Michigan, Emerson College, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Minnesota, the University of Rochester, the University of California – Berkeley, the University of New Mexico, the University of Pittsburgh, and the New School.
Students around the world have also followed the example of Columbia, with students beginning an encampment at Sydney University on April 23, and at the University of Alberta, in Canada on April 22.
Students at New York University in New York City launched an encampment at 4 am on April 22 on the campus’s Gould Plaza. That same evening, the New York Police Department moved in on the camp and conducted a violent eviction, arresting both faculty and students and macing and brutalizing protesters. The NYPD arrested 128 people, according to organizers, and cleared the encampment.
The story of the arrests at NYU speaks nothing to the brave defiance of the students and their crowd of supporters in the face of police brutality. NYU faculty were only arrested after linking arms in an attempt to protect the students in the encampment. As NYPD closed in on the camp throughout the day, a crowd of hundreds had gathered outside Gould Plaza to show support. Many of these supporters were arrested alongside student organizers.....
..jerusalem
..an excellent educational tool. and it sounds familiar.
How to justify the genocide of Palestinians in 14 easy steps: A graphical guide
quote:
Step 2: Remove all context. Always depict Palestinians as the aggressors. Blame Palestinians for their own oppression.
Step 5: Misinform the public with boldface lies.
..from that aggressor link.
'Don't call it Israel-Palestine': How language enables colonisation
quote:
Most media outlets will push the two sides into uncomfortable textual proximity by writing about the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict. But the hyphen suggests an equality that is uncalled for.
Hyphens provide bridges, connecting words in order to create an intimate bond owing to some inherent or desired attraction. Such word-sharing becomes offensive in the context of Israel’s decades long brutal occupation and settler colonialism, when goliath seeks to exterminate the David.
The hyphen falsifies grossly imbalanced power relationships, subtly getting our eyes used to the implication that the two sides are equal, that one is referring to the same neutral entity, just under a different name.
Encounter this spelling often enough, experience it seeping into your subconscious, and you will start to believe it......
Step 8: Criminalise liberation activities. Punish all Palestinian efforts to claim their rights, including by non-violent means.
Step 13: Manipulate people into choosing sides as if well-being is mutually exclusive. Hide the fact that a just, political solution will uplift everyone’s rights, security, and dignity, and it offers the only sustainable future.
Palestinian artists stifled as Israel ‘weaponizes fear and fame’
The persecution commenced almost immediately. Within days of the Hamas-led October 7 attack and the onset of Israel’s Gaza assault, the renowned singer Dalal Abu Amneh, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, was arrested for a post on social media.
“There is no victor but God,” she wrote, after her social media team in Cairo asked her to try to find the words to convey what she was feeling. The intended sentiment was that no good would come from violence by Hamas or by the inevitably brutal Israeli retaliation. Without explicitly notifying her, the social media team added a Palestinian flag to the message, as they usually do for all her posts. But as this one spread in the supercharged post-October 7 social media landscape, threats and harassment against Abu Amneh quickly mounted.
The folk singer, who is also a neuroscientist, approached the police in the hope that they would put a stop to the threats. But at the police station, she learned that she was under investigation for the post. She was arrested on the spot and held in a cell for three days with her hands and legs cuffed, before being released.....
..from that aggressor link.
'Don't call it Israel-Palestine': How language enables colonisation
quote:
Most media outlets will push the two sides into uncomfortable textual proximity by writing about the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict. But the hyphen suggests an equality that is uncalled for.
Hyphens provide bridges, connecting words in order to create an intimate bond owing to some inherent or desired attraction. Such word-sharing becomes offensive in the context of Israel’s decades long brutal occupation and settler colonialism, when goliath seeks to exterminate the David.
The hyphen falsifies grossly imbalanced power relationships, subtly getting our eyes used to the implication that the two sides are equal, that one is referring to the same neutral entity, just under a different name.
Encounter this spelling often enough, experience it seeping into your subconscious, and you will start to believe it......
Israel/Palestine
vs
Israel - Palestine.
LOL
..an excellent educational tool. and it sounds familiar.
How to justify the genocide of Palestinians in 14 easy steps: A graphical guide
Many of these “14 steps” are also used to support the genocide of Jewish Israelis. To understand a conflict you have to understand the viewpoints of all sides and not exclude viewpoints.
Memo To Gaza Protest Infiltrators...(&vid)
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1783252302356512775
"Watch Max Blumenthal and I catch them in the act..."
Naomi Klein: Jews Must Raise Their Voices for Palestine, Oppose the “False Idol of Zionism”
quote:
NAOMI KLEIN: My friends, I’ve been thinking about Moses and his rage when he came down from the mount to find the Israelites worshiping a golden calf. The ecofeminist in me has always been uneasy about this story. What kind of god is jealous of animals? What kind of god wants to hoard all the sacredness of the Earth for himself? But there is, of course, a less literal way of understanding this story. It is a lesson about false idols, about the human tendency to worship the profane and shining, to look to the small and material rather than the large and transcendent.
What I want to say to you this evening at this revolutionary and historic Seder in the Streets is that too many of our people are worshiping a false idol once again. They are enraptured by it. They are drunk on it. They are profaned by it. And that false idol is called Zionism.
It is a false idol that takes our most profound biblical stories of justice and emancipation from slavery, the story of Passover itself, and turns them into brutalist weapons of colonial land theft, roadmaps for ethnic cleansing and genocide. It is a false idol that has taken the transcendent idea of the Promised Land, a metaphor for human liberation that has traveled across faiths to every corner of this globe, and dared to turn it into a deed of sale for a militarist ethnostate.
Political Zionism’s version of liberation is itself profane. From the start, it required the mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes and ancestral lands in the Nakba. From the start, it has been at war with collective dreams of liberation. At a seder, it is worth remembering that this includes the dreams of liberation and self-determination of the Egyptian people. This false idol of Zionism has long equated Israeli safety with Egyptian dictatorship and unfreedom and client state. From the start, it has produced an ugly kind of freedom that saw Palestinian children not as human beings, but as demographic threats, much as the Pharaoh in the Book of Exodus feared the growing population of Israelites and thus ordered the death of their sons. And as we know, Moses was saved from that by being put in a basket and adopted by an Egyptian woman.
Zionism has brought us to our present moment of cataclysm, and it is time that we say clearly it has always been leading us here. It is a false idol that has led far too many of our own people down a deeply immoral path that now has them justifying the shredding of core commandments — “Thou shall not kill,” “Thou shall not steal,” “Thou shall not covet” — the commandments brought down from the mount. It is a false idol that equates Jewish freedom with cluster bombs that kill and maim Palestinian children.
Zionism is a false idol that has betrayed every Jewish value, including the value that we place on questioning a practice embedded in the seder itself with its four questions asked by the youngest child. It also betrays the love that we have as a people for text and for education. Today this false idol dares to justify the bombing of every single university in Gaza, the destruction of countless schools, of archives, of printing presses, the killing of hundreds of academics, scholars, journalists, poets, essayists. This is what Palestinians call scholasticide, the killing of the infrastructure and the means of education.
Meanwhile, in this city, the universities call the NYPD and barricade themselves against the grave threat posed by their own students asking them —
CROWD: Shame!
NAOMI KLEIN: — students embodying the spirit of the seder, asking the most basic question, asking questions like “How can you claim to believe in anything at all, least of all us, while you enable, invest in and collaborate with this genocide?”.....
Seder in the Streets: Hundreds Arrested in Brooklyn Protesting U.S. Arming of Israel
In Brooklyn, New York, police arrested as many as 300 Jewish activists who took part in a massive outdoor Passover Seder near the home of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. Protesters were calling for the U.S. to stop funding Israel’s assault on Gaza. This is Simone Zimmerman of Jewish Voice for Peace.
Simone Zimmerman: “What does it mean to celebrate a holiday about liberation in a moment in which Palestinian lives and freedom are under their most grave assault since the Nakba of 1948?”
epaulo13 wrote:
Political Zionism’s version of liberation is itself profane. From the start, it required the mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes and ancestral lands in the Nakba.
[/quote]
This is untrue. For over a century Arabs and Jews could have lived in peace in “the holy land” together under many different kinds of political arrangements but that path was very unfortunately not taken. Instead of constant conflict a good faith dialogue could have been established many times over the last century between Palestinians and Israelis that would have established peace instead of war.
Countless Passover Seders were held this week throughout the world supporting peace through establishing a permanent peace whereby Palestinians and Israelis can both live side by side in peace prosperity and harmony and where they both have their right to security and the right of political self determination respected.
The Zionazi Genocide State Must Go!
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1783500518247072083
"700 bodies now discovered at Nasser hospital alone (1,500 uncovered at Al Shifa), patients, some with catheters still attached, children with hands still bound, doctors and nurses, still wearing their scrubs, many shot in the back of the head at point blank range, execution style."
CANADA MUST CUT ALL LINKS TO THE GENOCIDAL APARTHEID STATE NOW!
Blocks from the White House, US students stand steadfast with Gaza
Chants of “free Palestine” were interrupted by ululating and cheers as dozens of Georgetown University students arrived at a protest at the neighbouring George Washington University (GW) campus in the heart of the US capital city.
Students, professors and activists from across the Washington, DC, area gathered on Thursday to show solidarity with Palestinians amid the war on Gaza and demand an end to what they call their colleges’ complicity in Israel’s human rights abuses.
Students at GW had set up a protest encampment on campus, joining the pro-Palestinian demonstrations sweeping colleges across the country.....
Deadline passes for pro-Palestinian student protesters to clear George Washington University
We are an hour past the deadline that the authorities said they wanted the people to move out of College Square right here in the heart of Washington DC – to clear the encampment.
Just in the last hour we have heard from the university saying that the occupation is illegal, is against university policy, and they are continuing discussions with the metropolitan police – the local police department in Washington DC – about how best to clear the area and return it back to the way it was 14 hours ago.
Columbia Students File Civil Rights Complaint After Arrests, National Guard Threat
A day after Columbia University officials warned it may call on the National Guard to remove nonviolent student protesters who have been occupying campus lawns since last week in solidarity with Gaza, advocacy group Palestine Legal on Thursday filed a federal civil rights complaint demanding an investigation into the school's "discriminatory treatment of Palestinian students and their allies."
The school discriminated against pro-Palestinian protesters last week when President Minouche Shafik summoned New York Police Department officers in riot gear to arrest more than 100 students, said Palestine Legal.
The complaint details how the escalation against students, who have set up an encampment on campus to demand Columbia divest from companies that work with the Israeli government and to support calls for a cease-fire in Gaza, is part of a monthslong pattern of the university's targeting of pro-Palestinian students.
According to Palestine Legal, students of all backgrounds who have demanded an end to Israel's U.S.-backed massacre of Palestinians in Gaza "have been the target of extreme anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab, and Islamophobic harassment, including receiving multiple death threats, being harassed for wearing keffiyehs or hijab, doxxed, stereotyped, being treated differently by high-ranking administrators including... Shafik, an attack with a chemical agent that led to at least 10 students requiring hospitalization and dozens of others, including a Palestinian student, seeking medical attention, and more.".....
Sounds like people want to break the rules of Columbia University and are unprepared to face the legal and natural consequences from doing that. Attacking Columbia University has consequences.
..you sound like an authoritarian. disguised as a lefty.
..and you sir have the hypocrisy to criticise ndpp. shame!
Student protests: From Vietnam to Palestine, a legacy of change
The recent wave of campus protests in the US advocating for Palestinian rights just goes to show how strong and enduring student voices can be.
Whether pushing back against international conflicts or fighting for social justice on their turf, student activists have consistently been at the forefront of societal transformation.
The Vietnam Era: A turning point in student activism
Let's rewind to the 1960s and '70s when US campuses were erupting with resistance against the Vietnam War.
This wasn't just your average protest against foreign policy; it was a profound questioning of authority and ethical governance.
The Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) were at the heart of it, organising massive demonstrations and sparking a nationwide student strike, particularly after the tragic shootings at Kent State, where four students lost their lives to National Guard gunfire.....
..everybody knows it's not about and never was about hamas.
Hamas official says group ready to disarm after two-state solution
A top Hamas official has told The Associated Press that the Palestinian group is open to agreeing to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
The comments by Khalil al-Hayya, a high-ranking Hamas official who has represented the Palestinian group in negotiations for a ceasefire and captive exchange, in an interview on Wednesday came amid a stalemate in months of ceasefire talks.
It is unlikely that Israel would consider such a scenario as its far-right administration is adamantly opposed to the creation of a Palestinian state on 1967 internationally recognised borders, as it continues settlement building on occupied Palestinian territories....
..you sound like an authoritarian. disguised as a lefty.
You sound like someone who has to rely on ad hominem attacks when you can’t rely on the facts. You’re the one who admitted that they agree with and support the authoritarian Hamas.
..and you sir have the hypocrisy to criticise ndpp. shame!
..and you have the hypocrisy to try to shame others when you espouse to support respectful dialogue.
epaulo13 wrote:
..everybody knows it's not about and never was about hamas.
…
A top Hamas official has told The Associated Press that the Palestinian group is open to agreeing to a truce of five years or more with  and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
[/quote]
Lol
“A truce of five years”
Lol
A peace agreement has to last longer than 5 years. A 5 year peace agreement would just legitimize the right to continuing violence and war. A peace agreement has to establish and insure permanent peace. Israel is obviously not interested in helping Hamas or Iran out politically or militarily.
quote:
Student protesters across the country exhibit a moral and physical courage—many are facing suspension and expulsion—that shames every major institution in the country. They are dangerous not because they disrupt campus life or engage in attacks on Jewish students—many of those protesting are Jewish—but because they expose the abject failure by the ruling elites and their institutions to halt genocide, the crime of crimes. These students watch, like most of us, Israel’s live-streamed slaughter of the Palestinian people. But unlike most of us, they act. Their voices and protests are a potent counterpoint to the moral bankruptcy that surrounds them.
Not one university president has denounced Israel’s destruction of every university in Gaza. Not one university president has called for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire. Not one university president has used the words “apartheid” or “genocide.” Not one university president has called for sanctions and divestment from Israel.
Instead, heads of these academic institutions grovel supinely before wealthy donors, corporations—including weapons manufacturers—and rabid right-wing politicians. They reframe the debate around harm to Jews rather than the daily slaughter of Palestinians, including thousands of children. They have allowed the abusers—the Zionist state and its supporters—to paint themselves as victims. This false narrative, which focuses on anti-Semitism, allows the centers of power, including the media, to block out the real issue—genocide. It contaminates the debate. It is a classic case of “reactive abuse.” Raise your voice to decry injustice, react to prolonged abuse, attempt to resist, and the abuser suddenly transforms themself into the aggrieved.
Princeton University, like other universities across the country, is determined to halt encampments calling for an end to the genocide. This, it appears, is a coordinated effort by universities across the country.
The university knew about the proposed encampment in advance. When the students reached the five staging sites this morning, they were met by large numbers from the university’s Department of Public Safety and the Princeton Police Department. The site of the proposed encampment in front of Firestone Library was filled with police. This is despite the fact that students kept their plans off of university emails and confined to what they thought were secure apps. Standing among the police this morning was Rabbi Eitan Webb, who founded and heads Princeton’s Chabad House. He has attended university events to vocally attack those who call for an end to the genocide as antisemites, according to student activists......
“Where Have All the Flowers Gone.” Illustration by Mr. Fish.
The Gaza Solidarity Encampment at Columbia University, New York, United States, on April 23, 2024. (Selcuk Acar / Anadolu via Getty Images)
The University of Southern California has canceled its main commencement ceremony, less than two weeks after it canceled a speech by pro-Palestinian valedictorian Asna Tabassum, setting off a firestorm. Police arrested over 90 peaceful protesters at USC Wednesday.
At Emory in Atlanta, a brutal police crackdown led to at least 28 arrests. Among those arrested was economics professor Caroline Fohlin, who was knocked to the ground by a police officer, while another held her down and bound her hands with zip ties.
Up to 400,000 people gather in central London on 9 March to call for a ceasefire in Gaza
Mark Kerrison/In Pictures via Getty Images
