Freedom of speech and the left

Paladin1 wrote:

Shouldn't Israels partner Hamas also be singled out for protest and blame?

Do you really need to have that spelled out? Are you not watching the news?

Aside from the fact the article I just posted DOES blame Hamas for their violence, and the fact they stand in the way of a two-state solution...

You said you agreed with my analogy; are you sure you understood it? Because I wasn't just throwing your words back at you, and pointing out why it was sophistry.

The German communists actually did commit reprisals and attacks, and in fact the Weimar government targetted them while ignoring the Nazis. As much as people nowadays seem to forget that, they also forget the fact that post war there were more consequences in West Germany for being an ex-Communist than for being an ex-Nazi.

Powerful states already get more support and respect than resistance movements. It isn't that German Communists didn't kill people - they had a policy of reprisals for their members who were murdered. But you know as well as I do that that does not compare to what Nazi Germany did. For that matter, it doesn't compare to the wholesale slaughter the SPD committed after 1918.

But the simple answer is - no one would be fool enough to claim that German Communists are equally to blame as the Nazis. And there is also a gap of proportionality in the atrocities in Gaza and West Bank.

As for you waving around the word "genocide", do you not understand the difference between someone saying "from the river to the sea" and a state committing REAL genocide using military force to displace and starve two million people, and destroy and damage 20 out of the 22 hospitals in their territory? Are you not aware of the 75 years of atrocities and theft of land that preceded Oct 7?

And if you see it as "barbarians at the gate" then I presume you recognize that it applies even moreso to the feelings of people who are penned up in a concentration camp regarding the barbarians bulldozing their houses and indiscriminately killing them.

You wonder why some people are desparate enough to support Hamas? because they see no one else who can do anything to fight back against the genocidal attacks they are suffering. 

As for why Netanyahu support them - keeping the Palestinian people in a life and death struggle so desparate that they support Hamas perpetuates the cycle of violence while the building of a Palestinian state is destroyed. And it gives hatemongers an scapegoat for claiming that a ceasefire will not work.

And concerns about what if a ceasefire is broken. How is that any worse than the atrocities being committed right now?

Scientist cited in push to oust Harvard’s Claudine Gay has links to eugenicists

Scientist cited in push to oust Harvard’s Claudine Gay has links to eugenicists

Christopher Rufo, credited with helping oust school’s first Black president, touted critic associated with ‘scientific racists’

A data scientist promoted by the rightwing activist Christopher Rufo, the Manhattan Institute thinktank, and other conservatives as an expert critic of the former Harvard president Claudine Gay has co-authored several papers in collaboration with a network of scholars who have been broadly criticized as eugenicists, or scientific racists.

Rufo described Jonatan Pallesen as “a Danish data scientist who has raised new questions about Claudine Gay’s use – and potential misuse – of data in her PhD thesis” in an interview published in his newsletter and on the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal website last Friday.

He did not tell readers that a paper featuring Pallesen’s own statistical work in collaboration with the eugenicist researchers has been subject to scathing expert criticism for its faulty methods, and characterized as white nationalism by another academic critic.

The revelations once again raise questions about the willingness of Rufo – a major ally of Ron DeSantis and powerful culture warrior in Republican politics – to cultivate extremists in the course of his political crusades......

[quote=epaulo13:

Does anyone now debate the whether or not Nazi Germany used “excessive” and “disproportionate” force to suppress the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising? Who now ponders whether Nazi Germany had a “right to self-defense” against the Jewish Fighting Organization — which resisted arms in hand? Are such questions even conceivable?

/quote

Does anyone debate whether the Jews of Europe attacked Germany like Arabs and Palestinians have continuously attacked Israel for over 75 years? Are such questions even conceivable?

The UN has spoken loud and clear. JKR , the reason I tend to go after you is because you always fall back on the idea rights under international law apply to all nations including Israel. A sentiment I agree with completely. The difference between y0u and me is that you think it absolves Israel and I think the comparison damns them. You never ever cite what exact rights you mean and in what international documents they are contained. The UN has been very consiostent in determining that Israel is an occupying force and as such is not living up to its international obligations.

Part V – Obligation to bring the illegal occupation to an end

The international law on State responsibility requires Israel to cease internationally wrongful acts and to offer “appropriate assurances and guarantees of non-repetition”.[49] Significantly, the International Court of Justice held that South Africa had an obligation to “withdraw its administration from the Territory of Namibia”, and similarly, encouraged in Chagos that the British administration of the Chagos Archipelago end “as rapidly as possible”.[50] For Palestine, appropriate restitution may thus take the form of the release of Palestinian political prisoners; the returning of properties, including cultural property seized by the occupying authorities; the dismantlement of unlawful Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem; the lifting of the blockade of the Gaza Strip; the dismantling of the institutionalized regime of discriminatory apartheid laws, policies and practices; and the dismantling of the occupying administration. Given Israel’s non-implementation of the prior advisory opinion on the construction of the Annexation Wall, assurances and guarantees of non-repetition may be an insufficient remedy.[51] It might also be necessary to establish a neutral arbitral claims commission to examine mass claims arising from the consequences of the occupying Power’s violations.[52] Notably, a 2019 study by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development concluded that the cumulative fiscal costs to the Palestinian economy from Israel’s occupation in the period 2000–2019 is an estimated USD $58 billion. In the Gaza Strip, the economic costs of occupation in the period 2007–2018 were estimated at USD $16.7 billion.[53] Exploitation and prevented development of natural resources has cost the Palestinian economy USD $7.162 billion over 18 years in gas revenues from the Gaza Marine and USD $67.9 billion in oil revenues from the Meged oil field at Rantis.[54] Overall, since 1948, the losses to Palestine are estimated to exceed USD $300 billion.[55]

The study outlines that there are international consequences for Israel’s illegal occupation and its breaches of peremptory norms of international law,[56] and Third States and the international community are obliged to bring the unlawful administration of occupied territory to an end. In doing so, this study underscores the requirements for the full de-occupation and decolonization of the Palestinian territory, starting with the immediate, unconditional and total withdrawal of Israeli occupying forces and the dismantling of the military administration. Critically, withdrawal, as the termination of an internationally wrongful act, cannot be made the subject of negotiation. Full sanctions and countermeasures, including economic restrictions, arms embargoes and the cutting of diplomatic and consular relations, should be implemented immediately, as an erga omnes response of Third States and the international community to Israel’s serious violations of peremptory norms of international law. The international community must take immediate steps towards the realization of the collective rights of the Palestinian people, including refugees and exiles in the diaspora, starting with a plebiscite convened under United Nations supervision, to undertake the completion of decolonization.

Notably, Security Council resolution 2334 (2016) urged, without delay, international and diplomatic efforts to put an “end to the Israeli occupation that began in 1967”. However, such diplomatic efforts since the 1990s appear to be premised on a dubious “land for peace” formula, which, if used to deprive the protected Palestinian population of their inalienable rights to self-determination and permanent sovereignty over national resources, would also constitute an internationally wrongful act. As such, the obligation for State withdrawal from illegally occupied territory is unqualified, immediate and absolute. General Assembly resolutions include important qualifications for Israel’s “unconditional and total withdrawal”, meaning that withdrawal is not to be made the subject of negotiation, but is rather the termination of an internationally wrongful act.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ceirpp-legal-study2023/

..sorry, you don't get to make that decision.

epaulo13 wrote:

..sorry, you don't get to make that decision.

I agree. The decision has to be made by both Israel and the leaders of the Palestinians.

JKR wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

..sorry, you don't get to make that decision.

I agree. The decision to the future of Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank is to be made jointly by Israel and the leadership of the Palestinians.

..nope. israel has it's own agenda. and negotiating with palistine is not on that agenda.

..i'm not so sure that is how things will play out. power struggles are happening.

..take your position for instance. you don't see the illegal occupation. you are hamas centric. that's a lot of baggage/demands you carry with your ideal peace plan. let alone what the crazy isreali leadership want. what is there for palestine to agree to? it's the same jailer with a new cage from what i see.   

..those words are meaningless if you don't think there has been an illegal occupation for the past 56 years. your not working within reality. have a good night. 

..sorry about that. it's an illegal occupation i've been talking about. i changed my posts to reflect that. my mind slows down when i get tired.

..i have said this more than once negotiating under occupation is negotiating under duress. and if it were under today's conditions much more so. negotiating while a people are starving sick and homeless. and to add insult to injury who will represent the palestinians is being decided externally.

..i sincerely hope that no negotiations other than those for a cease fire or prisoner exchange will occur under these conditions. something new has to come about. not the same old ruse where israel has all the power. all the bargaining chips. no bullshit trojan horses.

..the above is the last post i make in this thread on this topic. i am willing to continue in an appropriate thread. 

Australian Broadcasting Corporation (@ABCaustralia
) sacked award-winning Australian-Lebanese host @antoinette_news
after a "high-level and coordinated letter-writing campaign from pro-Israel lobbyists."

https://x.com/mehdirhasan/status/1747098557729968390?s=20

Toronto police chief reverses course, identifies 'terrorist flag' waved at demonstration

A day after refusing to identify the "terrorist flag" held at a demonstration last weekend that led to charges being laid against a man for public incitement of hatred, Toronto's police chief said the flag belongs to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

On its website, Public Safety Canada lists both the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command (PFLP-GC) as "terrorist entities."

"The concern we have and what we're alleging is that this individual displayed that flag and that [it] constitutes evidence of an offence of public incitement of hatred under the Criminal Code," Chief Myron Demkiw told CBC Radio's Metro Morning Friday.

At a Toronto Police Services Board meeting Thursday, police announced that a 41-year-old man was charged with public incitement of hatred for allegedly waving the flag while marching through the city's downtown Sunday.

Demkiw called the charge "unprecedented," noting the "very high threshold" to charge anyone with a hate propaganda offence.

quote:

Avenue Road bridge demonstrations now prohibited

Police also announced Thursday that demonstrations on the Avenue Road bridge over Highway 401 are now prohibited as they pose a threat to public safety and have made many in the surrounding Jewish community feel intimidated, Demkiw said Thursday.

quote:

Earlier this week, Demkiw publicly apologized after an officer was filmed handing coffee to a protester at a pro-Palestinian demonstration, adding questions had been raised about a particular interaction on Saturday between officers and a person at the Avenue Road bridge demonstration.

quote:

Palestinian, Jewish groups respond to charge

Dania Majid, president of the Arab Canadian Lawyers Association, said police "tactics" and "messaging" are re-enforcing anti-Palestinian racism and creating a public perception that Palestinians and Arabs are a threat to public safety.

"As police themselves have noted, the numerous large-scale protests in support of Palestinians have passed peacefully without incident," Majid said in an email Friday.

"Yet, police are increasingly taking a heavy-handed approach towards anti-genocide protesters, and criminalizing Palestinian freedom of expression and assembly."

Majid added that a long-standing distrust of police authorities by Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims has resulted in the under-reporting of hate crimes.

"They are, in fact, victimized at a significantly higher rate than what the data published by the police indicates," she said.

In a statement Friday, FSWC said it welcomes the police's move to lay charges.

"These latest actions taken by the Toronto Police Service come at a critical point, as the Jewish community deals with an extreme surge in antisemitic incidents and acts of intimidation," said FSWC President and CEO Michael Levitt......

Palestine Prohibited

A discussion about the repression of Palestinian activism on Canadian campuses and how faculty can organize to speak up about and for Palestine.

This event was part of the Faculty For Palestine (F4P) National Week of Action, with coordinated events taking place on campuses across Canada (January 15-19, 2024).

Speakers: Muhannad Ayyash (Mount Royal University); Chandni Desai (University of Toronto); Dyala Hamzah (Université de Montréal); Joshua Sealey-Harrington (Toronto Metropolitan University); Anna Zalik (York University); Jasmin Zine (Wilfrid Laurier University).

Moderators: Sue Ferguson (Wilfrid Laurier University) and Greg Bird (Wilfrid Laurier University).

Israel's war on Gaza revives colonial tactics of silencing dissent

Following Hamas’ 7 October attack, Israel and its backers have been waging two assaults. The first involves genocide in Gaza, which has killed more than 27,000 Palestinians, and intensified brutal violence in the West Bank under the guise of a ‘war on terror’.

The second is an indirect assault on language, amidst heightened attempts to silence and punish Palestinians and pro-Palestinians, including censorship on digital platforms. Despite global calls for a ceasefire and an end to Israeli occupation, censorship and oppression persist.

Present-day silencing of the Palestinian struggle is a form of language policing, an extension of colonial tactics to govern the colonised during their fight for liberation. Recognising these connections underscores language's significance when discussing the oppressor-oppressed relationship, highlighting the importance of resisting language policing in calls for liberation.

Colonial policing

Colonisers developed colonial police not just for crime control but to suppress anti-colonial movements, ensuring “stability” and “security”. Policing functioned to subdue marginalised groups and quell resistance to ensure compliance for colonial stability.

For instance, the French labelled Algerian anti-colonial resistance as “terrorism”, and the British criminalised anti-colonial protests in Egypt, framing resistance as “fanatics”.

In our present day power struggles, colonial policing’s echoes are evident in heavy suppression of protests. Since people around the world have mobilised in their masses to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, we have seen police use excessive force to repress them. In France, Germany, Italy, and the US, police have violently attacked pro-Palestine demonstrations.

This has been accompanied by smearing the protests. Western politicians, like US Congressman Brad Sherman or former UK Home secretary Suella Braverman have labelled protestors as "pro-terrorists" or demonstrations as “hate marches”.

French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin even ordered a ban on all pro-Palestinian protests in the name of protecting “public order”. These are colonial continuities of policing even within the "metropolitan centres".

In contrast, Western responses to the Russian invasion of Ukraine support Ukrainian resistance. While this receives backing, Palestine solidarity faces silencing, as Palestinians fighting occupation are labelled uncritically as "terrorists", ignoring the context of ongoing settler colonialism, and Israel’s brutal bombardment of Gaza is justified as “self-defence”.

Western hypocrisy in praising Ukrainians as “like us” - white, European, and ‘civilised’ - while criminalising Palestinian resistance as “barbaric” and “evil” reveals the ingrained racialised colonial biases.

Such colonial echoes of policing perpetuate a struggle rooted in race and class, with ruling elites suppressing people’s dissent worldwide. It helps us understand that our present day struggles are connected, all challenging the status quo.....

A Tidal Wave of State and Private Repression Is Targeting Pro-Palestinian Voices

Critics of Israel’s merciless war on Gaza are facing threats of government prosecution and blacklists or firings. In this neo-McCarthyist environment, anything pro-Palestine is being made to carry the whiff of bigotry or even incitement to violence.....

Black Agenda Radio, Feb 9, 2024 (podcast)

https://www.blackagendareport.com/black-agenda-radio-february-9-2024

"This week we talk about censorship in Canada, where anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian speech is suppressed and criminalized."

..pm becoming more desperate. i imagine his voice rising and getting all screechy with a little drool running from the corner of his mouth. as he spews out his accusations.  

UK threatens pro-Palestine protesters who 'cover their face' with jail in chilling new law

UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has threatened pro-Palestine protesters with jail if they cover their faces and said police would be given further powers. 

The new law could see protesters who 'hide their identities' facing jail in a chilling move that has sparked fears about free speech in the UK. 

In a video published on his official social media platforms, Sunak claimed that since 7 October, pro-Palestine demonstrations have represented "far too many appalling examples of antisemitism, violent intimidation and the glorification of terrorism". 

He warned that "those who abuse their freedom to protest undermine public safety and our democratic values". 

It comes after the UK Home Office outlined the new protest laws against wearing face coverings with threats of a month in jail and £1,000 fine.....

Not to defend the proposal, which I would need to read more of, then I guess tobacco companies should be allowed to advertise that cigarettes don’t cause cancer.

josh wrote:

Not to defend the proposal, which I would need to read more of, then I guess tobacco companies should be allowed to advertise that cigarettes don’t cause cancer.

That's silly of course. We know cigarettes cause cancer.

Should we put someone in jail for saying combustion engines work better in cold weather than EVs do?

And strangely enough, there is no scientific proof that smoking cigarettes will give you cancer. It is one of the biggest risk factors, of course, but the thorny question of proof is how tobacco companies were able to resist anti-tobacco legislation for so many years, and advertise that cigarettes were safe. The problem of proof was revisited in the Monsanto trials of a few years ago.

And we are living it with the fossil fuel industry.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2019/03/22/521240.htm

https://www.wbur.org/news/2018/08/07/does-roundup-cause-cancer

Jagmeet Singh Smears Anti-Genocide Protestors [please fwd and distribute]

https://twitter.com/BDSCoalition/status/1757832710561624380

https://bdscoalition.ca/2024/02/14/jagmeet-singh-smears-anti-genocide-pr...

"In response to faux outrage instigated by the former head of the fascistic Jewish Defence League (JDL) Meir Weinstein, Singh claimed that a march that passed by Mount Sinai Hospital, 'targeted the institution because of its ties to the Jewish Community.'

The baseless claim contributes to anti-Palestinian racism and distracts from the 1.5 m people Israel is currently terrorizing in Rafah.

Take one minute to demand Singh immediately remove his post on X smearing anti-genocide protesters..."

[email protected]

How disgusting that instead of using the ndp partnership with the Liberal minority government to force reversal of the UNRWA cuts, or halt Canada's military support for Apartheid Israel, and leverage help for Palestinians, he has apparently decided instead to side with their genociders and attack peaceful protesters. Shameful. Trudeau in a turban.

..letter sent

Jailing Journalists: The Assange Case & Threat to Press Freedom - Today @12:30 EST

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1757898936876994619

"A virtual discussion on how the Assange prosecution endangers all journalists. Zoom registration..."