2024 election polls

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jerrym

Here's more details from the Angus Reid poll reflecting the differences in Charest and Poilievre support and the increasing dissatisfaction with the Trudeau Liberals. 

https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022.07.24_CPC_Race.pdf

The distribution of potential votes is further illuminated when looking at vote retention. Broadly, Poilievre retains the core share of the Conservative vote, but pulls few past voters of other parties. Charest, on the other hand, retains fewer past Conservatives – with one-in-eight (12%) moving their vote to the PPC – but draws in nearly one-in-five (17%) past Liberal voters and one-in-ten of those who voted for the NDP in the fall.

Age and gender a factor

There is also a variation in the vote intention between the two candidates along age and gender lines. Both hold a significant potential advantage over the Liberals with men. But Charest closes the gap between the Liberals and the Conservatives among women.

Poilievre draws in a larger share of younger potential voters than Charest. Charest on the other hand is more popular with those over the age of 54, an age group with a higher propensity to vote:

Both men competitive in Ontario, Charest holds advantage in Quebec

Poilievre receives a larger share of vote intent in the Prairies than Charest, but elections for the Conservatives have been won and lost outside of that stronghold. In Ontario, both earn the vote intent of around one-third of potential voters, putting them near the Liberals. However, Charest garners a larger share of vote intent in Quebec (26%) than does Poilievre (21%):

Poilievre’s policies resonate more with past CPC voters

Poilievre and Charest have charted distinct courses for the Conservative party. ARI surveyed Canadians on some of the key policy proposals both candidates have made throughout the campaign and on their campaign websites.

Overall, Canadians are more likely to opine that Poilievre’s proposals – cancelling the carbon taxdefunding the CBCfiring the governor of the Bank of Canadasupporting the trucker convoy protestsembracing Bitcoin – are bad ideas than good ones. Half are not in favour of cancelling the carbon tax and defunding the CBC. Double the number of Canadians call firing BoC governor Tiff Macklem a bad idea (46%) than a good one (23%). Support is much lower for supporting the Freedom Convoy and cryptocurrencies (Poilievre has been criticized for promoting Bitcoin as a way to “opt out of inflation” in May, weeks before the cryptocurrency market tanked.)

However, speaking to Poilievre’s appeal to past Conservative voters, his ideas are viewed much more favourably among those who voted for the CPC in the 2021 general election. Four-in-five in that group call stimulating oil and gas industry growth by cancelling the carbon tax and other anti-energy laws a good idea. Two-thirds (67%) of past CPC voters want to see CBC funding redirected elsewhere. Still, fewer than half of Conservative voters call firing Macklem or supporting the convoy protests a good idea. Few (13%) say so of embracing Bitcoin.

Among those who last voted Liberal, NDP or BQ, few call any of his policies good ideas:

Charest’s policies have more cross-partisan appeal

ARI also presented Canadians with five key Charest campaign promises. Fully two-thirds (66%) say making it illegal to blockade critical infrastructure is a good idea to pursue. Charest criticized Poilievre for his continued support of protesters in Ottawa in earlier this year, even suggesting Poilievre should be disqualified from the race for doing so.

Two other ideas generate much more support than opposition from Canadians. Increasing national defense spending to 2.0 per cent of GDP (57% good idea, 20% bad) and cancelling the federal carbon tax to replace it with an industry specific version (43% good idea, 27% bad) are both relatively popular.

The allowance of more private health care delivery is controversial. Charest has proposed allowing provinces to increase the capacity for private care, something that 40 per cent of Canadians view as good policy and 43 per cent view negatively.

One other campaign proposal that has turned heads is a new equalization formula specifically for Alberta. This addresses a long-held critique from Albertans that they give more than they get in federation. Details are sparse to date, but Charest claims he would make equalization “fair” for the oil producing province. One-in-three Canadians (35%) say this is a good idea, while one-quarter disagree (22%). Perhaps unsurprisingly, the policy receives great enthusiasm in Alberta (see detailed tables):

While Charest has not connected as closely as Poilievre has with the Conservative base, four of his publicly available proposals are receive majority support among this group. Comparatively, that is only the case for two of Poilievre’s.

Support for Charest’s five ideas is also significantly higher among all other partisan groups compared to Poilievre’s:

Part Three: The Trudeau Factor

Two-in-five approve of PM

As the Conservatives decide the direction of their party, the Liberals’ leader maintains a stable level of (dis)approval. Two-in-five (38%) say they approve of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, while approaching three-in-five (56%) do not. Trudeau’s approval has remained consistent in 2022, after a more dynamic 2021:

Trudeau and the Liberals are in a secure position of governance despite a minority in parliament because of a confidence-and-supply agreement with the NDP. However, approval of Trudeau among those who voted for the NDP in the fall is split: similar numbers give the prime minister a thumbs-up (46%) as a thumbs-down (45%). Even among past Liberal voters, approval is not unanimous. One-in-six in that group disapprove of their leader.

Nearly all who voted CPC in the fall disapprove of Trudeau (96%). They are joined by two-thirds (66%) of past Bloc Québécois voters:

In Ontario, more than two-in-five (43%) approve of Trudeau, the highest measure in the country. That doubles the lowest mark, seen in Alberta (20%). However, at least half of respondents in all regions of the country disapprove of the prime minister:

Almost one-in-five 2021 Liberals say it’s time for a change in government 

More than half (55%) of Canadians believe it’s time for a change in government, despite being less than a year removed from the 2021 election. One-third (33%) disagree.

Notably, past Bloc voters are more divided on this question than those who voted NDP. Despite sharing some of the power of the current government through the confidence-and-supply agreement, half (49%) of past NDP voters say it’s time for a change in government. They are joined by one-in-six (16%) of those who voted Liberal.

Still, seven-in-ten (69%) Liberal voters say it’s not the right time to change government. Nearly all (93%) past Conservative voters disagree:

https://angusreid.org/cpc-crossroads-poilievre-charest/

Pondering

Interesting poll. About Angus Reid

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-accurate-are-canadian-polls/

Angus Reid, just outside the two-point radius, underestimates the Liberals by about two and half points compared to its competitors....Angus Reid has the CPC 1.3 points higher than the poll average.

That's almost a 4 point spread.

I think this poll was commissioned by the Conservative executive or someone connected to them. They want Charest to win the leadership because they know Poilievre can't win federally. I bet they also know that even after losing the election he, unlike Scheer and O'Toole, will maintain the support of members dooming the Conservatives. Next election must come before Oct 2025. NDP has promised support so I will assume the next election will be 2025. Poilievre loses but remains leader. The next election he would contest could be as late as 2029. He loses again. Next election, 2033. 

I think this is positioning the NDP very well. As others here have noted eventually the Liberals will lose. If the Conservatives can't win that leaves the NDP. The problem with that is the Liberals are becoming the Conservatives minus social conservativism which has lost the battle for hearts and minds both here and in the US. The NDP are becoming the former Liberals so will be electable by 2029 if not sooner. 

The left is doing very poorly in Canada. 

jerrym

I am not sure the next election will be in 2025. If the Liberals are unpopular and the NDP doing relatively well, a Liberal failure to live up to the NDP-Liberal agreement, could give the NDP the excuse to vote no confidence, triggering an election. However, the more likely scenario is the opposite in that the Liberals have every incentive to live up to the agreement if they are doing poorly. On the other hand, if the Liberals somehow, although seemingly unlikely but possible and more likely in the honeymoon period of a new Liberal leader should there be one. Then, the Liberals will find a way to call an election, as they have done so often in the past at the right moment to win. But even the latter seems less likely as time passes.

kropotkin1951

jerrym wrote:

Here's more details from the Angus Reid poll reflecting the differences in Charest and Poilievre support

https://angusreid.org/cpc-crossroads-poilievre-charest/


It seems that with Charest the PPC has oxygen and could be a factor in some close races but with Poilievre they disappear into statistical anomaly territory.
I live in an NDP riding that is traded back and forth between the Conservatives and the NDP but never the Liberals. Charest helps the NDP keep this seat, if the PPC drains away the Conservative vote.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Granted I live in "the Praries" but I wouldn't underestimate Poilievre having voting traction. And unlike some of the previous CPC leaders, he seems to attract younger voters. Again, I am in the Manitoba bubble and I hope I am completely wrong about the love fest with Poilievre in these parts and that it doesn't translate across the country.

Pondering

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/former-conservative-pm-stephen-harper-en...

"In the past several years he's been our party's most vocal and effective critic of the Trudeau Liberals," said Harper, who pointed to Poilievre's championing of economic issues like inflation and debt.

"He's proposing answers rooted in sound Conservative ideas, but ones adapted for today's realities."

JKR

Do sound Conservative ideas include Poilievre's support of crypto currency instead of Canadian currency?

robbie_dee

If, as expected, Poilevre crushes Charest in the leadership vote, Mark Carney seems like an interesting option for the Liberals' next leader if they want to scoop up disappointed red tory votes.

JKR

The fiat currency guy versus the crypto currency guy would make for an interesting matchup.

Pondering

I don't think he wants the job. Freeland is pretty obviously being lined up for the position. She is polling higher than Trudeau as prospective leader. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chrystia-freeland-tops-...

A Nanos Research poll of 1,049 Canadians conducted Jan. 21-23 for The Globe and Mail found 25 per cent of respondents said Ms. Freeland is best suited to lead the Liberal Party into the next election, compared with 18.4 per cent who said Mr. Trudeau would be their choice.

In voter-rich Ontario, Ms. Freeland is 13 percentage points ahead of Mr. Trudeau – and three points ahead in his home province of Quebec.

Freeland, 25%, Trudeau 18%, Mark Carney, 12%. 

kropotkin1951

She will bring a great Ukrainian tradition with her, as epitomized by her grandfather.

Pondering

Which Ukrainian tradition do you believe will be duplicated in Canada?

kropotkin1951

The glorious Reichskommissariat Ukraine of course. Her DNA and upbringing is to be a fascist collaborator. I believe she will have America's oligarchy's back if elected just like her grandfather had Hitler's back, while calling it nationalism.

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

She will bring a great Ukrainian tradition with her, as epitomized by her grandfather.

Painting Easter Eggs!

Glory to Ukraine!

kropotkin1951

Eggs from the Orthodx Christian tradition are truly wonderfully decorated.

I did enjoy this museum in Saskatoon when I visited a few years ago. Great eggs and wheat weaving decorations.

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The glorious Reichskommissariat Ukraine of course. Her DNA and upbringing is to be a fascist collaborator. I believe she will have America's oligarchy's back if elected just like her grandfather had Hitler's back, while calling it nationalism.

Isn't that true of any candidate to lead the Liberal Party regardless of the identity of their grandparents?

kropotkin1951

That is true but to my knowledge she is unique among potential candidates in having an actual NAZI collaborator as her grandfather.

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

That is true but to my knowledge she is unique among potential candidates in having an actual NAZI collaborator as her grandfather.


So you figure the fascism is in her blood so that makes her worse than other Liberals?

Attacking her based on her grandfather will backfire.

JKR

I thought it was NAZIs who believed in the importance of genetics?!?!

melovesproles

I had always thought it was far right conservatives that tried to normalize Neo-Nazis like the Azov batalion but it seems to be a popular liberal pastime these days.

Freeland has cited her Nazi-collaborationist grandfather as a victim of the Soviet Union and a political inspiration. The fact is Freeland has clearly lied about not knowing about her grandfather's well-documented connection to the Nazis. Her own uncle has written on it and she has written for her uncle's journal. It's hard to divorce this dishonesty from her role in crafting the policy where millions of Canadian tax dollars have been funelled to training and arming far right nationalists in Ukraine.

Pondering

It's common for family to defend dead family members. Canadians support helping Ukrainians fend off the Russian invasion. Nobody is going to listen to long stories about how he was a Nazi. Nobody is paying attention to stories of Canada funding the Azov battalion.  Ask 20 random Canadians I bet none of them would have any idea of what you are talking about. 

But be my guest. I am not a fan of Freeland. I just think she is a depressingly strong candidate. 

JKR

melovesproles wrote:

I had always thought it was far right conservatives that tried to normalize Neo-Nazis like the Azov batalion but it seems to be a popular liberal pastime these days.

There’s a big difference between normalizing Neo-Nazis and using false claims of Ukraine being controlled by Neo-Nazis to create a pretext for the unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine.

melovesproles

Pondering wrote:
It's common for family to defend dead family members.

You are saying lying about knowing about the history of one's Nazi grandfather is just an average example of defending one's family? And we're not talking about lying at a dinner party-she lied to the entire country/world and instead claimed it was Russian disinformation. This was well before the invasion but clearly only escalated the tensions that would lead to war. Historians will certainly wonder if Canada having it's foreign policy ran by someone whose primary motivation was 'defending' the legacy of her Russian-hating Nazi grandfather had anything to do with us taking such an extreme hawkish position.

Pondering wrote:
Canadians support helping Ukrainians fend off the Russian invasion. Nobody is going to listen to long stories about how he was a Nazi. Nobody is paying attention to stories of Canada funding the Azov battalion.  Ask 20 random Canadians I bet none of them would have any idea of what you are talking about.

I do find it fascinating how quickly you switch from a strident 'morality trumps everything' position when you think it favours your argument to extreme moral relativism when there clearly isn't a moral argument to be made. That Canadians are apathetic or ignorant of her lies is beside the point. By that logic, Putin would be entirely justified in invading Ukraine if enough Russians believed his pretext.

Pondering wrote:
But be my guest. I am not a fan of Freeland. I just think she is a depressingly strong candidate.

Well, we both agree she's a depressing candidate.

melovesproles

JKR wrote:
melovesproles wrote:

I had always thought it was far right conservatives that tried to normalize Neo-Nazis like the Azov batalion but it seems to be a popular liberal pastime these days.

There’s a big difference between normalizing Neo-Nazis and using false claims of Ukraine being controlled by Neo-Nazis to create a pretext for the unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine.

Really? LIke big as in one is bad and one isn't?

melovesproles

Freeland's dishonesty and refusal to admit knowing anything about her family's Nazi past should be a huge red flag for several reasons. Not least of which is that when people refuse to acknowledge the types of ideological biases that come from one's family and upbringing, it usually means they get internalized. An example of this can be heard in this interview with the Harvard Business Review. At the 19 minute mark, she posits that being a bit of an 'outsider' is an advantage when it comes to becoming one of the .1 percent and then casually claims that in Russia most of the oligarchs are Jewish. This is blatantly false. There is a high percentage of Jewish oligarchs relative to their population in Russia but according to this quantitative analysis of Post Communist Oligarchs in Russia, the percentage of Jewish oligarchs in Russia is just under 14% of all oligarchs. That Freeland lazily turns 14% into 51% could easily be due to her in-built biases of growing up in a family that wrote Nazi propaganda during and leading up to WW2. She says it "just makes sense" that most Russian oligarchs are Jewish but she clearly isn't being very careful about how factual her claims are.

I don't find it surprising that someone who has been consistently dishonest about their family history is not very good at reflecting on or challenging the biases connected to that history. For Canadians, who are supposed to be in the process of Truth and Reconciliation, this shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.

JKR

I think if, as expected, Freeland runs to be p.m. she should be judged on the policies she says she would support as p.m. and not on the politics of her long ago ancestors. Presumably since she is a policy wonk, if she runs for the Liberal leadership she will have a long list of policies she supports. She will probably be in a lot of trouble if her policies are pro-NAZI. My guess is that her policies will be anti-Nazi. We'll just have to wait and see if she even runs for the top job. Maybe instead she will run to replace Zelenskyy or maybe she’ll run to be the leader of the Azov battalion? ;p

kropotkin1951

Her policies will be pro oligarchy and that is fascism not Nazism. She will not be a Nazi she will be a fascist. The NATO fascist press is good at getting people in the West to believe that if something isn't as genocidal as Nazi's then they aren't fascists. At best she will be Margret Thatcher or Hillary Clinton.

JKR

If being pro-oligarchy is fascism doesn't that basically mean that almost all our politicians are fascists including those in Canada, the U.S., Russia, China, etc...?

melovesproles

JKR wrote:

I think if, as expected, Freeland runs to be p.m. she should be judged on the policies she says she would support as p.m. and not on the politics of her long ago ancestors.

She was in public office when she lied and she didn't just lie, she tried to blame a foreign power for "spreading disinformation" instead of acknowledging something that has been well-documented (by her uncle). That's incredibly dishonest, even for a politician. Spin away but her ancestors didn't do that. She did.

NDPP

 As intended the upcoming election will be yet another ratification of elite choice for their benefit not ours. Be it Freeland, Poilievre or Singh THEY win we lose and Canadians are just along for the ride.

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

If being pro-oligarchy is fascism doesn't that basically mean that almost all our politicians are fascists including those in Canada, the U.S., Russia, China, etc...?

Indeed it would. The countries that we all admire in Scandinavia rose up and put chains on their oligarchs for almost four decades and created true democratic societies. Canada spent the same period jailing communists and building a branch plant economy to serve the imperial center. The troika that imposed its will on Greece is fascist to the core and even the Scandinavian countries are falling into the Washington Consensus, which is the fascist system that rules the globe.

NDPP

Overall, and perhaps more than ever before in history, 'we the sheeple' would seem to accurately characterize the contemporary Canadian liberal body politic today. 

jerrym

Leger Poll August 26 

PCs 33%

Libs 32%

NDP 19%

Bloc 7%

PPC 6%

Greens 2%

https://2g2ckk18vixp3neolz4b6605-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uplo...

As the infighting continues in the Green Party they are down to 2%. Another Green Party leader, eco-socialist Quebec Green Party Leader Alex Tyrrell who was planning on running for federal leader, has been tossed out of the party, because of "controversial comments ...  about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine." Tyrrell has also criticized May, with the two of them also clashing over Israel in the past. Lascaris has also criticized May, while Tyrrell has also fought with another leadership candidate, Chad Walcott. 

Quebec Green Party Leader Alex Tyrrell, who will make his twelfth attempt over 10 years to win a seat in the National Assembly in the Oct. 3 provincial election, had also hoped to run for the federal party’s top job — before being tossed out as a member after making controversial statements about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. 

In a July 16 letter to him from party president Lorraine Rekmans, Tyrrell was informed that following his meeting with the party’s federal council the day before, a motion was passed to “expel” him from the party “due to his taking actions that are contrary to the principles and purpose of the party, and which have brought discredit to the GPC.” 

“Federal council… has concluded that your actions are in contravention of the Green Party of Canada bylaws and did in fact breach the member’s code of conduct,” Rekmans wrote.

She said the council agreed that Tyrrell’s “public statements on the war in Ukraine including your statement about Crimea’s forced annexation by Russia being justified, were inconsistent with Green Party principles, values and policy. Rekmans also cited Tyrrell’s “public statement justifying Putin’s demands in relation to the invasion of Ukraine.”

In March, Tyrell tweeted that “Russia’s most recent demands for a neutral and non-nuclear status for Ukraine, its demilitarization, its denazification, as well as the recognition of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk are reasonable demands that should be accepted by the Western countries and the Ukrainian government.”

He added: “I therefore call on the Canadian, American and NATO governments to stop sending arms to Ukraine and to support serious negotiations with Russia now to allow for an immediate de-escalation and to save lives.”

Interim leader Kuttner denounced Tyrrell’s comments.

The party also said Tyrrell, who describes himself as an ecosocialist, was expelled based on his public statements that cast the party as “pro-tar sands,” which the Federal Council said brought “discredit” to the federal Greens.

Tyrrell he responded to the council’s decision in a 40-page document sent to the party ombud and appeals committee.

Tyrrell also took aim at May on Twitter on July 28. “Just days after my expulsion from the @CanadianGreens leadership race Elizabeth May enters the race herself. Behind closed doors she has been advocating for and justifying my expulsion. Now we know why!”

May did not respond to a request for comment. 

The two have clashed before. In 2016, Tyrrell was among the writers of an opinion article in The Tyee that attacked then-BC Green leader Andrew Weaver over his opposition to the boycott, divest and sanction campaign against Israel. 

May fired three Greens who had signed the article from critic roles. It was reported May also urged senior federal Greens not to deal with Tyrrell.

Tyrrell, 34, who has led the Quebec Greens for almost nine years, said he hoped to convince Montreal lawyer and fellow eco-socialist Dimitri Lascaris, who placed second behind Paul in the 2020 leadership contest, to take another crack at the leadership. The Quebec Greens’ best general election showing under Tyrrell’s leadership has been 1.7 per cent of the popular vote.

Lascaris wrote a lengthy defence of Tyrrell after his expulsion. There is also an open letter, signed by several global Greens, including Lascaris and Alberta Green Leader Jordan Wilkie, calling for Tyrrell’s reinstatement.

In May, Lascaris told the Toronto Star that “it would be in the best interest of the party if Elizabeth May gracefully departed the scene and moved on to other endeavours.”

“Her continuing to linger within the power structure of the party is problematic — I think it was problematic for Annamie and will be problematic for whoever becomes the next leader,” said Lascaris.

Tyrrell told The Tyee that many of Lascaris’s supporters from the 2020 contest urged him to run for the federal leadership to ensure that there would be “an eco-socialist represented in the race.”

He believes the leadership contest was designed to support May’s return. “It’s a race in which people are only given 10 weeks between the announcement of the candidates and the final vote, and the candidates are blocked from sending political messaging to the membership. That gives a huge advantage to somebody who’s already well-known within the current membership, so Elizabeth is able to step into that quite easily,” said Tyrrell, who told The Tyee that he only had one meeting with May when she was leader. It occurred in 2016 and lasted 30 minutes. 

“I don’t think the return of Elizabeth May is positive for the Green Party and it would be one of the worst things to happen to it,” said Tyrrell. “I think it would show in the public’s eye that we’re not able to get past the personality of a single person.”

May is not the only potential Green leadership candidate Tyrrell has targeted. On Aug. 17, he sent Chad Walcott, who is running for co-leadership with Anna Keenan, a cease-and-desist letter obtained by The Tyee that claims Walcott has made “false allegations” against him that are “slandering [Tyrrell’s] reputation,” including allegations that Tyrrell expelled “hundreds” of Quebec Green members who signed a petition Walcott circulated in 2019 “calling for a vote of confidence” on Tyrrell’s leadership of the Quebec Green Party. 

In the letter, Tyrrell said that “not a single member was expelled for signing the petition.” He survived the confidence vote with 65-per-cent support.

Walcott told The Tyee that what he had said, in an email to an Ontario Green member, was that “after hundreds of members signed the petition, Alex expelled several members.”

https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/08/19/Why-David-Suzuki-Will-Not-Back-Elizab...

 

josh

If an election were held today, 33% would vote for the Conservative Party, 32% for the Liberal Party, 19% for the NDP and 7% for the BQ.

https://abacusdata.ca/canadian-politics-september-2022/

jerrym

Those numbers and url were already posted in the previous post.

jerrym

A new Nik Nannos poll suggests that the Cons may have some trouble getting support because their leadership, whether highly likely new leader Pierre Poilievere, interim leader Candice Bergen, or former leader Andrew Scheer, and a host of other Cons actively supported the Freedom Convoy. Nannos found that 70% of Canadians were less likely to support a politician who supported the Freedom Convoy.  While supporting the Freedom Convoy would win you some voters, Nannos deemed it a losing issue for a large majority of Canadians. 

Most Canadians say they would hold a negative view of a politician who openly supported the trucker protest that took place in Ottawa earlier this year, a new survey from Nanos Research shows.

The survey, which was conducted by Nanos and commissioned by CTV News, found about 70 per cent of participants would have a more or somewhat more negative impression of a politician in such a case, with residents in Quebec more likely to hold a more negative view (70 per cent) than those from the Prairies (58 per cent).

According to Nanos, about 13 per cent of respondents said they would view a politician who openly supported the protest more positively, eight per cent said they would hold a somewhat more favourable view, eight per cent said it would have no impact, and two per cent were unsure.

Nanos found women were more likely to say they would view a politician more negatively at approximately 66 per cent, compared to men at 61 per cent.

The survey found there is also a generational divide when it comes to public sentiments about the protest and the politicians who support it.

A little more than 58 per cent of Canadians aged 18 to 34 said they would hold a more negative impression, along with 59.5 per cent of Canadians between the ages of 35 to 54 compared to 71 per cent of those age 55 and older.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/majority-of-canadians-view-a-politician-...

jerrym

A September 14 Abacus poll found a 5% lead for the Cons and the NDP down by 2%:

PCs 35%

Libs 30%

NDP 17%

Bloc 9%

PPC 4%

Greens 4%

Others 1%

https://abacusdata.ca/canadian-politics-september-2022-poilievre/

jerrym

On the other hand a new Leger poll has the Cons up by 6% on the Liberals, it has the NDP up 2% on its last poll to 23%. Trudeau is still ranked best PM at 24% ahead of Poilievre at 21% and Singh close behind at 17%. 

PCs 34%

Libs 28%

NDP 23%

Bloc 8%

PPC 3%

Greens 3%

Others 1%

 

https://leger360.com/voting-intentions/canadian-federal-politics-septemb...

JKR

It's interesting how the NDP's and Liberals numbers always move a bit up and down but the total for both of them always seems to be stuck around just a bit above 50%. And with the Greens it’s well above half. And with half of the BQ it’s around 60%.

jerrym

On the third hand, a new Nanos poll discussed on CTV's Power Play today shows the Cons with a 2.3% lead on the Liberals with the NDP only 2.4% behind the Liberals and up 5.9% in the polls from last month as the Liberals are bleeding support everywhere.

Nanos  (% up or down from last month)

PCs 30.7% (-1.8%)

Libs 28.4% (-4.9%)

NDP 26.0% (+5.9%)

Bloc 6.0% (+0.5%)

Greens 4.8% (+0.8%)

PPC 3.4% (+1.3%)

Others 1% (same)

On CTV's Power Play Nanos said that progressive voters are increasingly fatigued with the Liberals and moving to the NDP because if you can't pay rent or a mortgage, food, and gas you are going to punish the government. 

Looking at my last three polls in these three last posts the one consistent thing is the Conservative lead over the Liberals. However, compared to the 2021 election Poilievre has only moved the Cons up 2% (Abacus) or 1% (Leger) and actually lost 2% in the Nanos poll, suggesting that Pierre's negatives which outweigh his positives with voters by 5% while Singh is +5% and Trudeau is -15% in the Abacus poll, which is his highest Conservative party percentage poll, are holding him back from major gains. Nevertheless, the falling Liberals do provide him with the opportunity to win the next election and with the right splits even a majority. Since inflation is likely with us for another year, the Liberals are not likely to rise quickly in the Leger poll. Furthermore, the failure of the Liberals in two of the three polls has primarily benefitted the NDP, as progressive disenchanted voters move away from the Liberals and NDP leader Singh Is only 4% behind Pierre in the Best PM poll as an alternative to Trudeau. 

Once again the combined NDP/Liberal vote at 54.4% in the Nanos poll came in at just over 50%, as in the other two polls, as JKR noted.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The poll numbers aren;t bad. If the CONs win,it will be by such a thin paper line that they will not be able to get anything done without the NDP or Liberals.

The fact that the Cons are polling so high is still nauseating. But this is on par with every political coronation. These numbers could change quickly.

Pondering

 Furthermore, the failure of the Liberals in two of the three polls has primarily benefitted the NDP, as progressive disenchanted voters move away from the Liberals 

If the polls indicate the Conservatives could win many Liberal/NDP voters will swing to whomever has the best chance of beating PP. He is polarizing. I believe he is a man of his convictions which is why Conservatives believe he can win, but it's why I believe he will lose.

Low taxes, less government and more freedom are not concerns for most people. Most people want a wealth tax and a windfall tax and improved government services. We want big government to intervene if there is another pandemic and we want government action on climate change. We don't want big oil subsidized. Oil projects look like they could easily become white elephants. 

PP's spiel pushing oil development and a cross Canada energy corridor is not going to fly.

People won't be voting for JT they will be voting against PP. I think the more certain it is that Trudeau will beat PP the more  votes the NDP will get. 

jerrym

jerrym wrote

 Furthermore, the failure of the Liberals in two of the three polls has primarily benefitted the NDP, as progressive disenchanted voters move away from the Liberals 

Pondering wrote:

We want big government to intervene if there is another pandemic and we want government action on climate change. We don't want big oil subsidized. Oil projects look like they could easily become white elephants. 

PP's spiel pushing oil development and a cross Canada energy corridor is not going to fly.

People won't be voting for JT they will be voting against PP. I think the more certain it is that Trudeau will beat PP the more  votes the NDP will get. 

Insanity is voting the same way and expecting a different result.

Canada under the Trudeau Liberals has led the developed world in both per capita and total fossil fuel subsidies according to a 2020 report (see two QUOTES below). However, a lot of people still think that the man who declared a climate change emergency in June 2019 and the next day bought the Trans Mountain pipeline is doing a great job on fossil fuels. In 2021, another report showed that in 2019 and 2020 Canada not only led in per capita fossil fuel subsidies but in total amount of subsidies.
Just since April 2022, the Trudeau Liberals have pushed for the 12 fossil fuel projects described in detail below and in some cases already subsidized further fossil fuel development in Quebec's Saguenay, Newfoundland both in new offshore oilfields and a hydrogen energy project that would use natural gas to produce the hydrogen, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia (see the bottom list for details of these projects) and Ontario's Ring of Fire mining project that would release large amounts of greenhouse gases from the areas peat bogs. This has been the ongoing pattern for the Liberal governments since the 1990s. The Conservatives say they support and subsidize fossil fuel development. The Liberals say their opposed to fossil fuel development but subsidize it at the highest rate in the world.
On Thursday of last week the Newfoundland Furey Liberal government, thanks in part to a Trudeau $320 million oil development fund given in 2020 when oil prices were at rock bottom, offered $80 million in subsidies to try to entice ExxonMobil to further expand its offshore oil fields (see #12 below).
The Trudeau government's own website shows it plans to reach maximum oil production in 2039 (https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/canada-energy-future/2020/res...), claiming it can increase production while reducing emissions using carbon capture and storage, but a new report this month concludes that carbon capture and storage (CCS), which the Trudeau Liberal government like many others is promoting as the way to keep producing and even increase fossil fuels, will not deal effectively with the ever growing greenhouse gas emissions (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/01/carbon-capture-is-no...).

Quote:
Canada has lavished at least C$13.8 billion per year in public financing on oil and gas projects since signing on to the Paris climate agreement, making it the fossil industry’s highest per capita source of public finance in the G20, and their second-largest overall benefactor after China, according to a blistering new report issued today by Oil Change International and Friends of the Earth U.S.
https://www.theenergymix.com/2020/05/26/breaking-canada-leads-g20-in-per...

Quote:

Canada, Japan, Korea, and China again provided the most public finance for fossil fuels between 2018 and 2020 at $11.0 billion, $10.9 billion, $10.6 billion, and $7.3 billion a year respectively, together accounting for 46% of the MDB and G20 fossil fuel finance in our dataset.
https://priceofoil.org/2021/10/28/past-last-call-g20-public-finance-inst...

JUST SINCE APRIL 2022 THE TRUDEAU GOVERNMENT HAS:
(1) in April 2022 the Trudeau Liberals secretly guaranteed a $10 billion loan to save the Trans Mountain pipeline that has exploded from the original $4.5 billion purchase price to an estimated $21.4 billion total cost that was only reavealed by Politico, not the government (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/10/trudeau-cabinet-approves-c-10b-...)

(2) Carbon capture, utilization and storage features heavily in the Trudeau government’s new climate plan, but critics question whether it represents another gift to to the oil and gas industry. (https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/trudeaus-2030-climate-plan-l...)

(3)the Trudeau federal Liberal and Furey Liberal Newfoundland governments approved Cenovus Energy and its partners' West White Rose oil project, a $3.2-billion expansion of the White Rose oilfield in offshore Newfoundland, and the deal includes reductions to how much royalty money the companies will have to pay to the provincial government despite record high oil prices (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cenovus-west-white-...)
(4) in April current Environmental Commissioner Jerry Demarco's report he concludes that with regards to Trudeau's climate change plan "the country may not be able to reach its 2030 emissions reductions targets because the federal government's current plan is based on "unrealistic" assumptions about the role hydrogen will play in the energy mix in years to come." (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/environment-commissioner-emissions-redu...) In a separate report Demarco concluded ""the country’s carbon pricing system is disproportionately hard on Indigenous communities and small businesses and not hard enough on the biggest emitters." (https://www.vicnews.com/news/carbon-pricing-too-hard-on-indigenous-group...)
(5) a May 2022 report foundCanada is the only G7 country with 2020 (last year with available data) greenhouse gas emissions way above 1990 levels despite thirty years of Liberal promises to reduce emissions (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/05/24/analysis/copenhagen-accords-...)
(6)In June the Trudeau Liberals, with former Environment Minister and current Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson now showing his true colours and in the lead in exploring developing two new LNG ports off the East Coast and another in Quebec's Saguenay, continue to push more fossil fuel development, in addition to the already approved Bay du Nord and West White Rose oilfield development projects off the Newfoundland coast during the last two months. Furthermore, by rushing to take advantage of the sudden great rise in demand for fossil fuels because of Covid becoming endemic and the war in Ukraine reducing Russian exports, the Trudeau government is risking discovering that Europe has shifted to renewable energy by the time these projects are finished in several year. (https://mailchi.mp/nationalobserver.com/go-easy-on-the-gas?e=608d2c52ee)
(7)Both the Trudeau Liberals and Newfoundland's Furey Liberals have big plans for further development of both Newfoundland's and Labrador's offshore oil beyond the Bay du Nord oil field they approved at the end of April 2022. They are betting the province's future on offshore oil development at the risk of both climate change disaster and the world shifting away from fossil fuels. The url below includes an interactive map where you can learn more about each of the many potential new oilfields. Of course this will ensure that Canada blows way past its 2030 greenhouse emission reduction targets. (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/09/07/investigations/map-newfoundl...)
(8) Under Trudeau we are now 29.4% above its 2030 target, leaving "Canada not on track to hit its 2030 target" according to formerEnvironment Commissioner Julie Gelfand (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/environment-commissioner-julie-gelfand-...), In November 2021 Environment and Sustainable Development Commissioner Jerry V. DeMarco concluded in a new report that "Despite three decades of effort, Canada's carbon emissions have risen 20 per cent since 1990, the country remains unprepared for climate disasters and subsidies for the oil and gas sector have not delivered promised emission reductions ((https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/environment-commissioner-report-failure...)) Environment Minister "told the CBC that Canada's oil and gas companies could take until 2032 to meet the interim goal of cutting emissions across all sectors to 40-45 per cent below 2005 levels.", instead of 2030 (https://www.hilltimes.com/2022/08/15/government-should-hold-firm-on-comp...).
(9) Now Trudeau is pushing LNG projects in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to take advantage of the war in Ukraine reducing LNG supplies from Russia despite opposition from environmental and indigenous groups. (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/07/22/news/lng-projects-dark-cloud...) (https://tj.news/telegraph-journal/101941505)
(10)In Canada the Trudeau Liberal and Ford PC governments both are gung ho to develop mining projects in northern Ontario's Ring of Fire region that would thereby threaten a major carbon sink as climate change's impact grows day to day. These mines would also threaten indigenous communities and the environment. They are ignoring "A study in the journal Science found that avoiding disturbances in peatlands is one of the country’s biggest opportunities to mitigate emissions." (https://news.mongabay.com/2022/06/canada-mining-push-puts-major-carbon-s...)
(11) Trudeau talked about a "clean" hydrogen development with German German Scholz in Newfoundland. "By German standards, clean hydrogen can only be produced using renewable energy like wind and solar. Canada, on the other hand, wants to add hydrogen made from natural gas to the mix, so long as the greenhouse gas emissions that come with it are mostly stopped using carbon capture technology", a technology that has not been proved on a widescale use basis. (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/08/25/news/canada-germany-hydrogen...)
(12) The Furey Liberal government in Newfoundland on Thursday of last week offered ExxonMobil up to $80 million if it invests more money in the offshore at a time when oil prices are sky high and record breaking profits! The Oil and Gas Industry Recovery Fund was announced in Sept. 2020, with the Trudeau federal government allocating $320 million to support the Newfoundland oil industry, due to the low price of oil. More subsidies poured into a sunsetting industry (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/west-white-rose-1.5...).(https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/09/19/news/nl-offers-exxonmobil-80...)

jerrym

In the last post, I wrote "The Trudeau government's own website shows it plans to reach maximum oil production in 2039 (https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/canada-energy-future/2020/res...)".
Here is the Trudeau Liberal government graph showing peak oil occurring in 2039 and barely dropping by 2050, when we are supposedly at net zero greenhouse gas emissions. By the way this graph was made well before Trudeau saw the steep rise in oil prices triggered by the war in Ukraine offering him the opportunity to massively subsidize more fossil fuel production in Quebec's Saguenay, Newfoundland both in new offshore oilfields and a hydrogen energy project that would use natural gas to produce the hydrogen, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to sell to energy hungry Europe as outlined in the 12 numbered items at the end of the last post. These future government subsidized projects were proposed after Canada under the Trudeau Liberals has led the developed world in both per capita and total fossil fuel subsidies according to a 2020 report as noted in (https://www.theenergymix.com/2020/05/26/breaking-canada-leads-g20-in-per...)
and (https://priceofoil.org/2021/10/28/past-last-call-g20-public-finance-inst...)

Obviously, voting for the Trudeau Liberals, despite their alleged 2030 greenhouse emission reduction targets and 2050 net zero goals, will help elect a government that will do the opposite of what they say on greenhouse gas emission reductions as the climate crisis gets exponentially worse with every passing year. 

Figure R.7: Total Crude Oil Production Peaks in 2039 and then Declines through 2050 in the Evolving ScenarioFigure R7 Total Crude Oil Production Peaks in 2039 and then Declines through 2050 in the Evolving Scenario

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/canada-energy-future/2020/res...

Pondering

That may be all true but it won't be in JT's campaign.  PP is actively promoting the LNG plant that Quebec rejected and the Energy Corridor which Quebec has also rejected. 

I would be delighted if the NDP won. They came very close under Mulcair. I don't think they will under Singh but I wouldn't rule it out. 

So many arguments on the left seem to focus on proving things that don't matter. You can prove that Trudeau is just as bad on oil but no one will listen or read long enough to be convinced even if they act like they are convinced. Conservatives promote oil. Liberals promote balancing the economy and environment. 

I think the number one issue in the next election will be balancing social needs (health care, housing,) and economic stability. 

I was happy to see Singh denouncing the Conservatives. That seems unusual for the NDP. 

jerrym

Pondering wrote:
I would be delighted if the NDP won. They came very close under Mulcair. I don't think they will under Singh but I wouldn't rule it out. 

So many arguments on the left seem to focus on proving things that don't matter. You can prove that Trudeau is just as bad on oil but no one will listen or read long enough to be convinced even if they act like they are convinced. Conservatives promote oil. Liberals promote balancing the economy and environment. 

I was happy to see Singh denouncing the Conservatives. That seems unusual for the NDP. 


Liberals say they are promoting balancing the economy and environment. Their actions prove the opposite. The next election may well be fought over balancing social needs and the economy, but if the climate crisis is left out of the picture or given token discussion, we are in deep trouble in the not too distant future. Either the world rapidly changes to green energy or we will see more and more and more of scenes like one third of Pakistan flooded as torrential rains and melting glaciers ravage the country, 150 foot drops in part of the Colorado River causing sever rationing of hydroelectricity throughout the American Southwest due to climate change induced drought that is already limiting agricultural and industrial production, 50 million on the verge of famine in the Horn of Africa from climate crisis drought, and lest we forget BC's 2021 year of heat wave deaths, massive flooding wiping out infrastructure, homes and economic production, as well as the wildfire that burned down one third of Fort MacMurray a few years ago, or the numerous floods and wildfires that are occurring across Canada and the world crippling economies on which social programs depend. I could go on with many other examples but one more that is a major threat: the lowball estimate of climate change refugees is 200 million and the estimates run up to over a billion. Think about the economic and social devastation that will cause not only for those people but for wherever it is they escape to. Yes, the scientists were wrong. What they said would happen in 2100 and later said 2050, is already starting to happen now. However, we may continue to ignore the climate crisis or say the words without dealing with the action needed to change in a significant way, but that doesn't change the crisis, whether we make economic and social issues a major focus of the next election or not.

Pondering

 However, we may continue to ignore the climate crisis or say the words without dealing with the action needed to change in a significant way, but that doesn't change the crisis, whether we make economic and social issues a major focus of the next election or not.

You're right it doesn't but that is nothing new. Liberals and Conservatives don't run on everything they plan to do once they are in power. They run on the top items they hope will get them elected and don't always fulfil those. 

The left should do the same. Not false promises but just of few top notes that aren't too shocking that the 99% would support.  Then once in power inform and poll Canadians. Our military budget is 36 billion for 2022 expected to rise to 51 billion in 2026.

Actually, push that info either way along with alternative ways it could be spent. 

JKR

Pondering

WOW! That's great news. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-s-conservatives-in-lead-while-...

With those numbers I think the Liberals still win but the NDP is so close it could easily flip to them. These remind me of the 2015 numbers when first place went first to the Conservatives, then NDP, then back to Liberal. 

jerrym

ETA:

There is another problem with Trudeau's willingness to further expand subsidies for fossil fuels in a country that according to research described above already leads the world in both per capita subsidies during Trudeau's time in office and now leads it in annual subsidies for the development of fossil fuels. Yet Trudeau is willing to subsidize new fossil fuel development Quebec and East Coast fossil fuel projects that were outlined in 12 separate items in post #94 to try meet European energy needs created by the war in Ukraine. Those projects if they go ahead will take at least five years before producing any revenue and much more likely longer. Trudeau is betting that Europe, as well of the rest of the world, will continue to need and develop more fossil fuels for the next two decades at a very high level of consumption in order for this to pay off for Canada when most EU nations have indicated they want to get off fossil fuels as fast as possible This is because of the ramifications of the Ukraine war, having learned the price of doing so, not only for the resultant environmental damage, but now the heavy economic damage to these nations.
The tar sands are the highest cost oil to produce in the world and depend on high prices in order to make a profit. Sometime after the Ukraine war ends the economics of high price Canadian oil may well crash. In fact, they are crashing now. The risk of his future fossil fuel subsidies outlined above also transforming into mountains of debt is great. 

The mercurial nature of oil prices and the risks that presents are shown by oil prices surging past $130 a barrel with predictions of hitting $150 a barrel in June (https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/brent-price-could-reach-150-per-barrel-...) to falling below $80 for the first time today with no end to the drop in sight (https://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-falls-below-80-a-barrel-11663966352). Another example Trudeau's purchase and construction going wrong is the Trans Mountain pipeline which is now estimated to cost $21.4 billion (https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/trans-mountain-says-pipeline-ex...). Not only is his claim of using "profits" from the pipeline gone into the ether, he secretly in April 2022 secretly guaranteed a $10 billion loan to save the Trans Mountain pipeline(https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/10/trudeau-cabinet-approves-c-10b-...). He added the $10 billion in secret because he knew it would not look good politically. And the Trudeau government meanwhile is pushing fossil fuel projects that will at best make their first dollar in five years. We are riding the fossil fuel rollercoaster and the Trudeau Liberals and Poilievre Conservatives have no intention of letting us get off no matter when it's going to crash totally.

We have already seem how that hit the Alberta and Canadian economy hard during the last of many price busts. And the next price bust for fossil fuels may be the last as the environmental damage from the climate crisis gets exponentially worse. However, the world is addicted to fossil fuels, with Canada being hooked far more than most nations, and in a state of denial that keeps allowing us to deny what happens to addicts if they never get off the junk. Unfortunately, there is very good chance that level of denial will continue through the next election, thereby allowing the Liberals or Conservatives to win and carry on with Canada's fossil fuel addiction. 

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