2024 election polls

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jerrym
2024 election polls

O'Toole's popularity has dropped sharply from 91% at the election date to 59% among Conservative voters and from 38% to 24% among voters in general. This has resulted in the Cons dropping below the Libs 35% to 29%, even though they had a greater voter share in the election, winning 33.74% to the Liberals 32.62% then. It appears that O'Toole's shift to the centre right has not attracted many new voters and has alienated part of his base. Even more troubling for O'Toole is that his disapproval rate among Conservatives has grown from 8% at election time to 31% today.

Trudeau still has a negative approval rating, with with 54% disapproving to 38% approving for a -16% rating, which is in the same ballpark as at election time. So the increase in Liberal support has come from the failure of O'Toole to win the confidence of voters, thanks in part to his avoiding answering some questions, such as which Cons are not vaccinated, and a drop in approval within his own base. O'Toole shift towards the centre is even alienating part of his base and he is now even less popular than Scheer when Scheer quit the leadership. 

The NDP is at 20% compared to 17.82% during the election, so the polls shows the Liberals and NDP have grown by approximately the same percentage in voter support. Singh is the most popular leader with 52% approval. 

New data from the non-profit Angus Reid Institute show Canadians – including those who supported the CPC in September’s federal election – have cooled on O’Toole significantly.

Among past CPC voters favourability towards the leader has plummeted faster – 22 points over two months, from 81 per cent at the beginning of October to 59 per cent at the end of November.

O’Toole’s favourability among all Canadians, which peaked at 38 per cent in the days before the election, has dropped to a new low of 24 per cent.

Facing internal strife and scrutiny over the vaccination status of his caucus, the embattled Conservative chief is today less popular than former leader Andrew Scheer was when he was forced out of the job two years ago.

On the opposite side of the Commons, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s governing Liberal party has enjoyed a modest bump in vote intention since September, rising five points to 35 per cent

However, after failing to secure a majority in back-to-back elections, speculation has begun about Trudeau’s own future as leader of the party, and Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland, named this week to Forbes’ 100 Most Powerful Women List, has been suggested as a potential replacement. Trudeau, for his part, has said he intends to be at the party’s helm for the next election.

Whoever leads the party into the next election, the Liberals currently hold a six-point advantage in vote intention over the rival Conservatives after a hotly contested campaign two-and-a-half months ago.

More Key Findings:

  • One-in-three strongly disapprove of Trudeau, while six per cent strongly approve of him.
  • O’Toole favourability is lower among Conservatives now than Scheer was at same time post-election in 2019.
  • Liberal support is buoyed by women while the CPC suffer from the shift to the PPC among younger male voters.

While NDP leader Jagmeet Singh and Bloc Québécois leader Yves-François Blanchet have both seen their favourability ratings hold steady in the wake of the last federal election, CPC leader Erin O’Toole has seen his plummet as he reckons with dissent within his party.

Efforts to rebrand the Conservative Party as more progressive are, in particular, facing resistance and have reignited old ideological and regional schisms. Debates over whether O’Toole should step down as leader that had been percolating since the election took on new meaning recently when Sen. Denise Batters – who was kicked out of the of the national caucus by O’Toole – launched a petition to expedite the leadership review process.

Party insiders have hinted that those who want O’Toole ousted are reaching out to the rank-and-file in an effort to curry favour in preparation for a possible leadership contest. For his part, O’Toole has vowed to keep fighting. This at a time when his favourability has dropped to 24 per cent – from a peak of 38 per cent in September:

https://angusreid.org/otoole-favourability-federal-politics-december/

Pondering

Conservatives are screwed. They destroyed the Progressive Conservative Party that could have won elections replacing it with the Reform-Cons wannabe Republican Party. 

I am fairly certain that Trudeau will lead the Liberals into the next election. Allowing Martin to depose Chretien led to disaster. Trying to replace Martin with Rae or Ignatieff further doomed them. 

The Liberals no longer have members. Trudeau was elected by anyone who wanted to vote and it was done online before covid. They will have to do the same when they change leaders. The executive won't be able to just install whomever they want. 

As long as Trudeau can win elections, minority or majority, I think he keeps the job as long as he wants it. 4 more years gets him to 10 years so he might choose to step down. I think it will depend on how popular he feels going into the next election. 

jerrym

The most recent federal poll by EKOS on December 21st shows the NDP with a 5% increase since the election while the Cons have dropped 9% putting them at only 2% ahead of the NDP. How long can O'Toole survive if this is remotely accurate? The PPC are also up 5% suggesting that O'Toole's shift towards the centre right is costing the party hard core right wing votes without gaining more moderate voters, a picture similar to the Leger poll in post #1. The Liberals are down 1%, basically a statistically tie with their election results. 

Federal Polling: LPC: 32% (-1)

CPC: 25% (-9)

NDP: 23% (+5)

PPC: 10% (+5)

BQ: 4% (-4)

GPC: 4% (+2)

EKOS / December 21, 2021 / n=1015 / MOE 3.1% / IVR

(% Change With 2021 Federal Election)

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1478970652195536896

Debater

It will be interesting to see whether the shift in support from the Cons to the PPC is just temporary, or whether it's the sign of something more long-term.

BQ also down 4 points in this poll, perhaps now that the mini-controversy over the English debate moderation has subsided.

nicky

I would like to think the NDP is up 5% but remind myself that EKOS was the least accurate of the major pollsters in the last election

Pondering

The shift from CPC to the PPC may or may not be permanent but the Conservatives are disintegrating because for decades it has been made up of separate factions that are in opposition to one another.  When the Progressive Conservatives party reunited under Harper they got lucky because the Liberals were in such disarray for such a long time and Harper was such a dull accountant type that he didn't alarm people. He was able to keep the base quiet by throwing them bones during the minority years. Once he had a majority the social conservatives expected more support but didn't get it. 

Both Scheer and O'Toole appealed to social conservatives to win the leadership. The narrative that Harper was strong and united the party, silenced the social conservatives, is false. It won't work "again" because it didn't work in the first place. The party wasn't united. Social conservatives were biding their time. 

The pragmatics of the party want social conservative votes based on them being better than the Liberals on social issues but federally they aren't.  If the Liberals had moved to legalize prostitution that might have moved votes to the Conservatives. 

There wasn't a single vote against the Conversion Therapy Bill. 
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/conservatives-fast-tracked-conver...

OTTAWA – Conservatives decided to push through the Liberals proposed ban on conversion therapy — even though more than half of their MPs voted against it in the last Parliament — to avoid a fight they envisaged losing a second time.....

Trudeau used the Conservatives vote against the bill as a club in the fall campaign and four MPs who voted against it were defeated in ridings around Vancouver.

The Liberals reintroduced the bill on Monday with some key changes, including banning the practice for adults as well as children, but also some clarity that conversations between parents and their children would not be criminalized.

When Conservative leader Erin O’Toole exited his caucus early Wednesday afternoon he said Trudeau had failed to move the bill forward and his party would move to change that.

He might as well have said "screw you social conservatives". 

This is the PPC appeal to social conservatives....

https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/freedom-of-expression

A People’s Party government will:

  • Restrict the definition of hate speech in the Criminal Code to expression which explicitly advocates the use of force against identifiable groups or persons based on protected criteria such as religion, race, ethnicity, sex, or sexual orientation.
  • Repeal any existing legislation or regulation curtailing free speech on the internet and prevent the reinstatement of section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act.
  • Repeal C-16, M-103, C-10, and C-36.
  • Ensure that Canadians can exercise their freedom of conscience to its fullest extent as it is intended under the Charter and are not discriminated against because of their moral convictions.
  • Withhold federal funding from any post-secondary institution shown to be violating the freedom of expression of its students or faculty.
Pondering

nicky wrote:

I would like to think the NDP is up 5% but remind myself that EKOS was the least accurate of the major pollsters in the last election


I think NDP numbers are very volatile right now. When people fear the Conservatives they could flip to Liberal at the last minute. The Greens are hugely unpredictable right now. They rose up a bit but the next leader is anyone's guess. Lascaris as leader could increase their vote share or decrease it. If Trudeau remains leader and fear of the Conservatives is down I could see voters shifting to the NDP. Maybe not enough to win, but maybe enough to force concessions.

jerrym

I averaged the last 8 polls (from October29th to December 21st) summarized on Wikipedia and compared them to the September election results and found the  biggest winners were the the NDP (+2.7%) and the PPC (+2.4%), while the biggest loser were the Cons (-5.5%), so the trends are not as dramatic as the very last poll on December 21st, the overall pattern is the same as the EKOS poll which showed: 

The Liberals are down 1%, basically a statistically tie with their election results. 

Federal Polling: LPC: 32% (-1)

CPC: 25% (-9)

NDP: 23% (+5)

PPC: 10% (+5)

BQ: 4% (-4)

GPC: 4% (+2)

EKOS / December 21, 2021 / n=1015 / MOE 3.1% / IVR

(% Change With 2021 Federal Election)

The average of the last eight Polls compared to the September election results were:

LPC: 33.1% (+0.5)

CPC: 28.2% (-5.5)

NDP: 20.5% (+2.7)

PPC: 7.3 (+2.4)

BQ: 6.6% (-1.0)

GPC: 3.3% (+1.0)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_fede...

Pondering

Thanks for doing all the math Jerry. I find it torturous. The NDP seems to be moving up by doing nothing. 

jerrym

Pondering wrote:

Thanks for doing all the math Jerry. I find it torturous. The NDP seems to be moving up by doing nothing. 

I think Singh's pushing for ongoing Covid relief programs that the Liberals cut when we were on the downside of the fourth wave, now looks good to a fair number of people as the fifth wave hits all-time records. If it is simply doing better in many people's perception by doing nothing as you say, it seems to me that would suggest many people are even less impressed by what the Liberal government is doing. Historically, 32.6% for the Liberals in the election and 33.1% in the average of the last 8 polls are terrible numbers. Paul Martin lost in 2006 with 36.73% and even Dion, who was a charismatically challenged leader, got 30.23% in 2008, which is not far off our charismatic PM now. After all, Liberal election victories until 2019 have had much higher percentages. The PPC growth I think is a combination of people becoming increasingly fed up with Covid (something happening around the world) and looking for a simple solution like pretending it's not a big problem, which attracts them to Bernier's demagogic approach, as well as O'Toole shifting away from the more right-wing elements of the Cons platform.

JKR

I think these kinds of numbers would give the Liberals a strong “majority” government with just 32% of the vote.

Pondering

I think Singh's pushing for ongoing Covid relief programs that the Liberals cut when we were on the downside of the fourth wave, now looks good to a fair number of people as the fifth wave hits all-time records.

Which Trudeau can ignore because Singh already told Trudeau that he won't vote against him in a confidence motion so there is no need for Trudeau to pay any attention to him. I doubt he has even spoken to him since the last election.  I said then that Singh should demand something in return for his support. If we discovered that Singh and the NDP executive were paid off by the right-wing I would have no trouble believing it.

If it is simply doing better in many people's perception by doing nothing as you say, it seems to me that would suggest many people are even less impressed by what the Liberal government is doing.

I think the majority of people voting Liberal are really voting against the Conservatives and to a much lesser extent against the NDP.

I think the NDP can see the future of the Conservative Party as clearly as I can. The NDP is positioning themselves to be the new liberal government when the Liberals finally lose power. 

What's that saying? The NDP are Liberals in a hurry. 

The executives and leaders of political parties put power first. There is no second. They don't care about politics. They are doing jobs nothing more. Singh was a progressive type so he went with the NDP but politics isn't his priority. Keeping his job is. 

The powers that be have decided that left and right are defined by social not economic policy. That is going to end because social conservatives are losing power. The Conservative party didn't dare place a single vote against conversion therapy because they know that federally they cannot win with conservative social values.

kropotkin1951

And the winner is beetle-bomb. Our planet is in destruction mode and we are all talking about the horse race and how popular leaders are. We are so fucked as a society.

JKR

Beetle-bomb sure ain't no Seattle Slew! To deal with our current existential crisis we definitely need leaders like Secretariat, Man O' War, and Seabiscuit! The likes of Trump, Biden, Trudeau, Singh, and O'Toole, are going to send us all to the glue factory.

 

NorthReport

Unfortunately, political polling often underrepresents Conservative support - why is that?

 

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:
<p>Unfortunately, political polling often underrepresents Conservative support - why is that?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 The pollsters all seem to be quite predictable in which favor which parties which is then averaged out by 338. I think the Conservative support is exagerated by a few polling companies or rather the Liberals are under-counted. 

The Progressive Conservative party was dissolved. The executive is belately seeing the error of their ways but what is done cannot be undone. They surrendered to the reformers and courted xenophobes. O'Toole was playing up the "culture war" and "war on oil" before the election. The Conservatives, federally, are going down the tube. 

Even if people like Leslyn Lewis don't come anywhere close to winning the leadership they get enough attention to brand the party. Charest does not have a hope in hell. Shows how desperate they are for leadership material that he would even be considered. 

NorthReport

Latest Nanos survey appears to show the NDP and the Liberals climbing in the polls

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/polling-shows-russia-ukraine-war-...

jerrym

The latest poll (April 22) by Nanos has Cons in the lead by 5.6%. Only one poll has shown them with a higher percentage (38.7 %), raising the question whether this is an outlier or the result of Poilievre boosting the Cons popularity, possibly by recapturing a significant part of the PPC vote, which is down to 3.4%, which has had five polls at 9% or higher with at a top poll of 12.7%. 

Cons 35.6%

Libs 30.0%

NDP 19.6%

Bloc 5.4%

Greens 5.5%

PPC 3.4%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_fede...

jerrym

The Cons now have a statisically significant lead over the Liberals for the first time in a long time. 

As of April 22, support for the Conservatives increased 4.3 percentage points over four weeks to 35.6 per cent, overtaking the Liberals whose support dropped 2.2 percentage points to 30 per cent.

The New Democrats also saw their support drop by two percentage points to 19.6 per cent. Support for the Green Party inched up 0.7 percentage points to 5.5 per cent, while dropping 0.5 and 0.2 percentage points respectively for the Bloc Quebecois (5.4 per cent) and People's Party (3.4 per cent).

"But the key takeaway here is that the Conservatives are opening up a lead that is statistically significant. It's outside of the margin of error," pollster Nik Nanos said Wednesday on the Trend Line podcast.

Nanos said he has not seen numbers like these for the Conservatives since Erin O'Toole was leader of the party.

Nano said parties without leaders can become more popular than those with leaders, since there is no one at the helm for Canadians to be "repulsed by."

Meanwhile, the weaker poll numbers represent a "complete dead cat bounce" for the Liberals and NDP, Nanos said.

Last month, both parties agreed to enter into an arrangement that would see the NDP support the minority Liberals until 2025, in exchange for agreeing to prioritize certain policy issues such as dental care and housing.

Nanos said while it is understandable that the Liberals would want to ensure their budgets are not defeated, it likely comes with a political trade-off.

And if an election was held today, he said there is a good chance the Conservatives could win government.

"Maybe one of the takeaways here is that although the Liberal-New Democrat arrangement, parliamentary arrangement, provides for stability, I think Canadians woke up and go, 'Hold on a second. Does that mean we're going to have this for until 2025?' Perhaps some Canadians aren't happy and looking at the Conservatives as an alternative."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/conservatives-open-statistically-signifi...

kropotkin1951

Apparently Canadians were less than impressed with the Trudeau Singh song and dance.

Michael Moriarity

On the other hand, establishment talking heads like Nanos often say that Canadians hate early election calls, so it's a bit surprising he now says that they're champing at the bit waiting for the next race to start.

kropotkin1951

Michael Moriarity wrote:

On the other hand, establishment talking heads like Nanos often say that Canadians hate early election calls, so it's a bit surprising he now says that they're champing at the bit waiting for the next race to start.

Canadians are dying to know which 37% of the population is going to get a government they voted for. The Liberal's will not call an election unless a major scandal breaks out. Given the incestuous relationship between our oligarchy's lobbyists , the Ottawa civil service and the Liberal party who knows what lies in sewers of power.

josh

Our most recent vote intention measures find the Conservatives and Liberals tied with 31%, the NDP at 19%, and the BQ at 8% (32% in Quebec).

Compared to the results of the last election, the Conservatives find themselves down three points, the Greens up 3 (to 5%) and no other party has seen a statistically significant shift.

https://abacusdata.ca/conservative-leadership-canadian-politics-may-25/

jerrym

New Abacus poll done on July 11-17 released  with Trudeau disapproval up and the biggest net negative for him since first elected with NDP +2% with Poilievre as Con leader and +3% with Charest as Con leader. People's Party gains 1% with Poilievre as Con leader but 7% with Charest as Con leader.

 

Voting Intentions with Poilevre as Con Leader

Voting Intentions with Charest as Con Leader

https://abacusdata.ca/canadian-politics-july-2022/

Pondering

In other words, the Liberals have the next election in the bag. 

kropotkin1951

The voter turnout is likely going to be dismal.

jerrym

The fact that more than half of the People's Party base would shift to the Cons when (not if) Poilievre wins the Con leadership according to this poll will give Pierre a chance to win the PM's office and also will certainly push the party even further to the right than it already is. The question that remains is whether centre right voters who don't like the extreme right shift to the Liberals, which in turn would shift them further right if it happens. 

Pondering

Liberal/NDP voters will swing to whomever can beat the Conservatives if there is any chance Poilievre could win. That's if Trudeau is still leading the Liberals. 

I am 80 to 90% certain that he will not lead the Liberals into the next election and that Freeland will recieve a coronation. 

Poilievre against Freeland, she wins. First elected female PM of Canada. She is known on the world stage. She closed the EU/Canada free trade deal. Poilievre's attack dog style politics will be much less effective against her. 

The swing voters that decide elections pick in the last week or two before the election. In this case Poilievre is so polarizing I think we will know before then. 

kropotkin1951

In Ontario, where governments are made, the biggest swing voters are Liberal to Conservative and vice versa. The people who voted for Paul Martin liked Harper for example. However somehow the Ontario electorate manages to normally balance the two parties by often having one in power federally and the other provincially.

Pondering

Poilievre makes Ford look like a Liberal. The pattern changed when the Orange Crush happened and became more apparent when Mulcair almost won. Scheer and O'Toole were too far right to beat Trudeau. Those were both elections the Conservatives should have won. That is why the party ditched them right away. They went "moderate" but didn't deliver a win so the party has moved even farther right. I think that even if I am right and the Conservatives lose the next election, Poilievre will remain leader. He is the true face of the party.

 

kropotkin1951

The Orange Crush was a Quebec event not an Ontario one to any great extent. Jack only won 22 seats in Ontario in that election which was an improvement but not a breakthrough of significance. Mulcair "almost won" refers to which election?
ETA Mulcair's NDP won only 8 seats in Ontario in 2015.

melovesproles

I'd have to imagine Freeland would be the dream opponent of Pollievre. If inflation continues to skyrocket, there is no way she won't be tied to it alongside any other Liberal-fatigue issues that we can expect. And a pro-US/NATO hawk isn't going to rally the left to the Liberal's defence against the Conservatives. You'd think the Liberals would have learned that one with Ignatieff.

Paladin1

Canadians deserve another 4 years of Trudeau. I hope he wins the next election.

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Orange Crush was a Quebec event not an Ontario one to any great extent. Jack only won 22 seats in Ontario in that election which was an improvement but not a breakthrough of significance. Mulcair "almost won" refers to which election?
ETA Mulcair's NDP won only 8 seats in Ontario in 2015.


No but it made the NDP a real contender. It laid the groundwork for Mulcair. There was a day or two when polls showed he would have won the election around late winter early spring before people found out Trudeau could indeed dress for the debate. Jagmeet Singh has very high approval ratings.

The Liberals will most likely win the next election but if they don't it will be the NDP not the Conservatives. Poilevre won't get more than 33%. He can't win an election with that.

Yes swing voters used to swing between the Conservatives and Liberals. I am sure many still do. But in the last few elections we have also seen large swings between the Liberals and NDP. The Conservatives have good reason to want the NDP to do well. The NDP does well when voters perceive Conservatives as conservative. Scheer and O'Toole had it right. Their own party sinked them by bitterly complaining about the platform being too far left.

Pondering

melovesproles wrote:
I'd have to imagine Freeland would be the dream opponent of Pollievre. If inflation continues to skyrocket, there is no way she won't be tied to it alongside any other Liberal-fatigue issues that we can expect. 

Canadians are aware that inflation is a worldwide problem and that supply chains are not back to normal and that Covid has been a huge expensive challenge. They would have to be convinced that Conservatives would have done a better job. Poilievre will not appear to be someone who could have guided Canada through these crisis better. 

If  Liberal-fatigue issues were enough Trudeau would have been gone the last two elections. Duing times of crisis people look to the government for help not "freedom", Poilievre's clarion call. People want vaccine and mask mandates and government support programs. Poilievre wants to reopen the idea of an energy corridor across Canada. He wants to override a Quebec decision to block fossil fuel energy projects. Quebec will have a fit when that sinks in. The Ontario left will be incentivized to prevent a Conservative win to stop energy projects.

melovesproles wrote:
that we can expect. And a pro-US/NATO hawk isn't going to rally the left to the Liberal's defence against the Conservatives. You'd think the Liberals would have learned that one with Ignatieff.

It isn't a matter of rallying around a party. I am convinced most people vote for the least bad option. Freeland is nothing like Ignatieff and he lost because he was an unrelatable import now because he was a hawk. Did anyone even notice his policies?

From January 28th. 
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chrystia-freeland-tops-...
A Nanos Research poll of 1,049 Canadians conducted Jan. 21-23 for The Globe and Mail found 25 per cent of respondents said Ms. Freeland is best suited to lead the Liberal Party into the next election, compared with 18.4 per cent who said Mr. Trudeau would be their choice.

In voter-rich Ontario, Ms. Freeland is 13 percentage points ahead of Mr. Trudeau – and three points ahead in his home province of Quebec.
Mr. Carney, also touted as a potential Liberal leader should Mr. Trudeau step down before the next election, has 12.1-per-cent support, followed by Innovation Minister François-Philippe Champagne at 2.5 per cent and Defence Minister Anita Anand at 2.3 per cent.

A significant 31.8 per cent of respondents said they were unsure who should lead the Liberal Party.

Freeland is a very strong contender. Any comments concerning her grandfather will be shot down as the father's sins not hers. She has supported the defence of Ukraine. She wrote that book which will lead people to believe she cares about inequality. 

melovesproles

The issue isn't that her grandfather was a Nazi, it's that she has cited him as a poltical influence and lied about his politics and her knowledge of them.

Fatigue is usually cumulative and the economic problems were there during the last election but have only worsened. Anyway, this is clearly all opinion-based but in my opinion Freeland would be the ideal opponent for the Conservatives. I imagine they are salivating at the possibility.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

100% agree with melovesproles. And your comparison to Ignatieff is spot on - they are both cut from very similar cloth and both possibly count Samantha Power as a close friend.

Michael Moriarity

laine lowe wrote:

100% agree with melovesproles. And your comparison to Ignatieff is spot on - they are both cut from very similar cloth and both possibly count Samantha Power as a close friend.


Yes, Freeland would be the perfect foil for a faux populist right winger like Poilievre. She wrote a book about inequality in which her conclusion was that inequality is increasing but there is nothing to be done about it. The Con lies about economic inequality are more likely to work because she has spent her life telling the very same lies.

JKR

Paladin1 wrote:

Canadians deserve another 4 years of Trudeau. I hope he wins the next election.

Why do you think Canadians deserve to be punished with another 7 years of Trudeau as PM?

[I don’t think you’re saying Canadians deserve to be rewarded with another 7 years of Trudeau as PM]

JKR

I’m not sure why but I wouldn’t be surprised if Mélanie Joly ends up replacing Trudeau instead of Freeland. Or maybe someone like Anita Anand?

Pondering

JKR wrote:
I’m not sure why but I wouldn’t be surprised if Mélanie Joly ends up replacing Trudeau instead of Freeland. Or maybe someone like Anita Anand?

You could be right. The Liberals made a big deal about not having to become a member to vote for the leader of Liberal Party. It was all done online so the Liberals would have to explain their reasoning if they now block Canadians from voting for the next leader.

It's also possible Trudeau will run again. That would be Poilievre's dream candidate but he would still lose.

JKR

Pondering wrote:

The Liberals made a big deal about not having to become a member to vote for the leader of Liberal Party. It was all done online so the Liberals would have to explain their reasoning if they now block Canadians from voting for the next leader.

That’s a very interesting point you’re bringing up. If the Liberals let all Canadians elect their leader again, next time around Canadians voting in the Liberal leadership election will also be electing the Prime Minister. It would be the first time Canadians would choose directly who their Prime Minister is. I think this kind of election could see very many Canadians voting in it. It would also be open to outsiders of the Liberal Party. It will be very interesting to see if the Liberals use the same open process again. This kind of open process could lead to the election of a very popular leader but someone many Liberal insiders might not approve of.

Ken Burch

Paladin1 wrote:

Canadians deserve another 4 years of Trudeau.

The word "deserve" can have more than one meaning, you know.

JKR

I "deserve" to win the next Lotto 649.

Or, to be more precise, I merit winning the next Lotto 649.

Pondering

JKR wrote:

That’s a very interesting point you’re bringing up. If the Liberals let all Canadians elect their leader again, next time around Canadians voting in the Liberal leadership election will also be electing the Prime Minister. It would be the first time Canadians would choose directly who their Prime Minister is. I think this kind of election could see very many Canadians voting in it. It would also be open to outsiders of the Liberal Party. It will be very interesting to see if the Liberals use the same open process again. This kind of open process could lead to the election of a very popular leader but someone many Liberal insiders might not approve of.

I hadn't thought of it from that angle. They still have to pick from a slate of Liberal candidates.

So you agree then that short of some dramatic unimaginable event the Liberals will win the next election?

One way the Liberals could avoid it is if Trudeau quit too late to run a leadership race before the election. The executive could say they had to pick someone.

JKR

I think a Liberal outsider could enter the election for Liberal leader by just joining the Liberal Party and fulfilling the other requirements of the leadership election. I don't think an open election would insure the Liberals of winning the subsequent general election but I do think it would make their odds very good as an open election would likely provide them with a popular leader. My guess is that sometime during the spring of 2024 Trudeau will announce he is stepping down and the Liberals will have an election for a new leader and PM around the fall of 2024. The new leader and new PM would then have the option of calling an early election or of waiting until the set date of October 2025. I think Freeland is still favoured to win but a truly open election opens up a lot of possibilities especially if very many Canadians participate in the Liberal leadership election because it would determine who the next prime minister is.

kropotkin1951

There was a day or two when polls showed he would have won the election around late winter early spring before people found out Trudeau could indeed dress for the debate.

Thanks for explaining when Mulcair was a contender.

I too think that Trudeau will make an orderly exit and that if Freeland is elected as leader all bets are off in a race between her and Pierre the Poseur. The Liberals while allowing anyone to vote have shown no inclination to allow just anyone to run for leadership. The vetting processes will keep the nominations from being taken over by an outside force.  I am sure they will do the same as last time and let anyone who will give them an e-mail address a chance to vote. It seems like a great way to give every Liberal riding association a new list of high potential voters to consolidate as X's on the ballot.

The illusion of choice is one of the most powerful components of our system.

Ken Burch

JKR wrote:
Pondering wrote:

The Liberals made a big deal about not having to become a member to vote for the leader of Liberal Party. It was all done online so the Liberals would have to explain their reasoning if they now block Canadians from voting for the next leader.

That’s a very interesting point you’re bringing up. If the Liberals let all Canadians elect their leader again, next time around Canadians voting in the Liberal leadership election will also be electing the Prime Minister. It would be the first time Canadians would choose directly who their Prime Minister is. I think this kind of election could see very many Canadians voting in it. It would also be open to outsiders of the Liberal Party. It will be very interesting to see if the Liberals use the same open process again. This kind of open process could lead to the election of a very popular leader but someone many Liberal insiders might not approve of.

Do they make it a requirement that leadership candidates must be party members? If not, Charest could stand for that job, too.

JKR

Mulcair, Elizabeth May, and Charest could run a joint leadership campaign together to be the party's first three headed co-leaders and change the party's name to the "New Democratic Green LibCon Party."

Pondering

I'm assuming that they will be nice to each other in the debates to not give the Conservatives and NDP any ammunition. There will probably be another obvious front runner as Trudeau was and Poilievre is. I wish it were one of the other women but I am pretty pesimistic. 

Yes to the illusion of choice but we could change that if there were enough collective will.

 

josh

Poll shows Charest would much better than Polievre in Atlantic, Ontario and Quebec, even though the overall numbers with each as leader would be the same.  In addition:

 

Due to this lack of support for Poilievre, the combined Liberal-NDP portion of the voting population climbs seven points under his hypothetical leadership, with the Liberals receiving 29 per cent support and the NDP 22 per cent. A Poilievre-led CPC holds a five-point vote intention advantage over the Liberal Party.

https://angusreid.org/cpc-crossroads-poilievre-charest/

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