Assisted suicide.
Is the left on the right side
Sun, 2022-11-13 17:05
#152
Sun, 2022-11-13 17:10
#153
Well you cannot legally consent to have yourself harmed (with a few exceptions, like taking part in team sports).
Good example. Sports are a really broad brush where injuries are knowingly downplayed and hidden because the athletes are bringing in millions of dollars.
Clearly concussed footballers are being allowed to play on, Ifab claims
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/13/clearly-concussed-football...
But just because no, you can't legally sell your organs doesn't mean the principle of having control over your own body makes no sense.
I'm in agreement with you and Kropt. Humans should have complete control over their own bodies.
I think people should be allowed to sell their own organs if they choose.
Sun, 2022-11-13 17:13
#154
Assisted suicide.
If you mean as an exception to self-harm it isn't the same thing (and again, there are exceptions for sports and getting surgery). But euthanasia to prevent needless suffering is not harm. It is the opposite.
Sun, 2022-11-13 17:35
#155
@ Paladin
You must be playing silly buggers now. There are a number of reasons why bodily autonomy cannot extend to selling your body parts.
Again, with a few exceptions (at least in the states):
https://www.businessinsider.com/body-parts-that-can-be-sold-for-profit-2...
And Iran, the only country in the world where it is legal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade
Sun, 2022-11-13 17:49
#156
I am pro-choice, but I support abortion rights for other reasons than a general support for bodily autonomy.
Paid surrogacy is another issue where supporting the right for one to control one's body doesn't capture all the complexities. Is generally legal in the US, became explicitly legal in law in New York in 2021:
https://www.americansurrogacy.com/surrogacy/new-york-surrogacy-laws
Gloria Steinam does not approve:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/nyregion/surrogate-pregnancy-law-ny.html
Alienation, Commodification, and Commercialization: A Feminist Critique of Commercial Surrogacy Agreements Through the Lens of Labor Exploitation and U.S. Organ Donation Law:
https://repository.uchastings.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1471&conte...
Sun, 2022-11-13 18:53
#157
@ Paladin
You must be playing silly buggers now. There are a number of reasons why bodily autonomy cannot extend to selling your body parts.
It's an issue where I believe I'm wrong but I support my position regardless. Like with capital punishment, I'm arguing from an emotional position and not logical one.
Sun, 2022-11-13 21:02
#158
I am pro-choice, but I support abortion rights for other reasons than a general support for bodily autonomy.
Paid surrogacy is another issue where supporting the right for one to control one's body doesn't capture all the complexities. Is generally legal in the US, became explicitly legal in law in New York in 2021:
https://www.americansurrogacy.com/surrogacy/new-york-surrogacy-laws
Gloria Steinam does not approve:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/nyregion/surrogate-pregnancy-law-ny.html
Alienation, Commodification, and Commercialization: A Feminist Critique of Commercial Surrogacy Agreements Through the Lens of Labor Exploitation and U.S. Organ Donation Law:
https://repository.uchastings.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1471&conte...
That last link is interesting and makes clear the distinction between bodily autonomy and commercialization.
Sun, 2022-11-13 21:11
#159
Academics forget theory is not real life. Individuals don’t fit into tidy groups to be distributed by political affiliations or ideologies. Academics categorize people to form frameworks to study human behavior but they forget real people don’t follow ideologies. We have a variety of opinions that we develop over time from family and friends and our own inclinations. We do have feelings about life and the kind of society we want to live in. There is nothing wrong with that.
I feel like each side thinks the other side's followers are a monolithic block. We need to talk past academics and activists to find our common humanity which isn't to say they don't both make valuable contributions. They do. Academics play with theories that develop our thinking and advance our morality. Activists help to turn advanced social theory into reality.
Brings me to my second point. Morality shouldn't be a dirty word. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms reflects what we believe to be moral including the protection of minorities. That was a choice based on morality, on recognizing right from wrong. It is morally wrong to steal and to cheat (not that you would know it from our politicians).
Mon, 2022-11-14 18:13
#160
Paladin it seems to me the real question is should people be able to exploit people with no money. I think that we can all agree that we should all have the right to decide whether to have a doctor extract an organ from our own bodies to save another humans life. If they do that should they be compensated for their time and pain and suffering? Australia thinks it is okay despite some people's assurances they don't.
This program supports people who have donated a kidney or partial liver to someone who needs it.
Being a living organ donor means undergoing tests and having major surgery, which comes with certain risks and long recovery times.
All these responsibilities mean extra time off work, dipping into leave entitlements or using leave without pay.
Under the program, donors can access:
- reimbursement of up to 342 hours of paid leave at the national minimum wage
- reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses associated with donating.
The program reimburses the donor’s employer, so they can support their staff member to donate without financial stress.
Payment to the employer can be either to:
- re-credit the donor’s leave – if the employee has taken sick or annual leave for donating purposes
- reimburse the employer – if the employee did not have sick or annual leave to take, but the employer still compensated them
- a combination of both.
This program is not an incentive to donate. Reimbursing leave and out-of-pocket expenses meets the World Health Organization’s guiding principles on human cell, tissue and organ transplantation.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/supporting-living-org...
Tue, 2022-11-15 22:53
#161
<p>Assisted suicide. </p>If you mean as an exception to self-harm it isn't the same thing (and again, there are exceptions for sports and getting surgery). But euthanasia to prevent needless suffering is not harm. It is the opposite.
I don't see why a depressed person needs help killing themselves if that is the only thing wrong with them.
I agree with advance directives for the terminally ill but helping people kill themselves who are not terminally ill is no more acceptable than capital punishment.
I am not against capital punishment because the criminals don't deserve it. I'm not against it because of mistakes. We could be more careful in demanding absolute proof. I'm against it because it is cold-blooded state-sanctioned taking of a life. That shouldn't be anyone's job even if they are willing.
If someone is actually terminally ill and has no chance of recovery and only suffering lies before them then of course we should treat them with mercy. They aren't being killed they are dying.
Both my husband and father died of cancer and in their last days they were given enough morphine to kill them and in both cases I was told though not in so many words.
The message was they will be dead within days. If we continue increasing the morphine to prevent the pain it will depress certain functions and they will probably die sooner but we can't say when. I said stop the pain at all costs. The same occurred for my grandmother which was decades earlier. It wasn't my decision but she was made comfortable.
Of course I don't want people to suffer needlessly.
https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d...
TORONTO (AP) — Alan Nichols had a history of depression and other medical issues, but none were life-threatening. When the 61-year-old Canadian was hospitalized in June 2019 over fears he might be suicidal, he asked his brother to “bust him out” as soon as possible.
Within a month, Nichols submitted a request to be euthanized and he was killed, despite concerns raised by his family and a nurse practitioner.
His application for euthanasia listed only one health condition as the reason for his request to die: hearing loss.
Nichols’ family reported the case to police and health authorities, arguing that he lacked the capacity to understand the process and was not suffering unbearably — among the requirements for euthanasia. They say he was not taking needed medication, wasn’t using the cochlear implant that helped him hear, and that hospital staffers improperly helped him request euthanasia.
“Alan was basically put to death,” his brother Gary Nichols said.
Disability experts say the story is not unique in Canada, which arguably has the world’s most permissive euthanasia rules — allowing people with serious disabilities to choose to be killed in the absence of any other medical issue.
Fri, 2022-11-18 13:28
#162
Back to why the left isn't connecting, the right does a better job of connecting emotionally in a politically advantageous way.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/climate-change-compassion-1.6627696
Psychologically speaking, the inability to grasp the scope of human suffering may be something that's ingrained.
"Humans are evolutionarily disposed to care about and look after both ourselves and those to whom we are related," Colin Ellard, a professor of psychology at the University of Waterloo, said in an interview…
Another psychological aspect Ellard notes is something called "psychic numbing," where people tend to be indifferent to the suffering of a great number of people.....
"We're not driven by statistics. We're driven by stories," he said. "So you can say, 'X-thousand number of Syrian refugees drowned in the Mediterranean.' I'll say, 'Oh, that's terrible.' But show me that picture… Alan Kurdi "……
It could also relate back to a sense of "othering," Ellard said: They are not part of our clan, so, while we see the tragedy, it doesn't move us in the same way it would if it were happening closer to home.
Distancing is a better term. If my emotions were the same regardless of if a tragedy were hitting my family, my community, my city, my country, etc. I would be crying all day. I can’t help everyone in the entire world. My responsibility to do something increases with the closeness to me. With Alan Kurdi it wasn’t just because he was a little boy it is that his aunt had been trying to get him to Canada.
We might think the lesson is to personalize tragedies but it doesn’t work.
Not all photos of tragedy have such a profound impact. That may be due to the fact that we've seen images of starving children for decades, perhaps desensitizing us.
We can’t care about everybody at the same time with the same intensity. I have periodically taken sanity breaks from the news. Pelting people with the suffering of others can result in a feeling of helplessness leading to withdrawal and adopting the mantra of act locally. Likewise the message that we are endlessly evil is overwhelming. I don't want to feel guilty about things I don't have the power to change. The natural inclination is to think about something else.
The left needs to appeal to the self-interest of the 99% or what they think is in their self-interest.
Sat, 2022-11-19 16:27
#163
The left right divide is primarily a difference in economics. Individual rights are not on a left right spectrum since all people deserve the same individual rights. The left is defined by its opposition to the economic status quo. The right, especially the center right, is defined by its believe that the system we have is more or less okay and only needs some tweaks at best. The problem in Canada is most people think our economic system has worked to their benefit although it is now going off the rails. People on the left want to shake those middle and upper class people out of their comfort zones because they see the poverty of the minority not the middle class dream.
The left believes in collective solutions for helping the poor and those collective solutions mean that many Canadians have to give up some of the status quo that they like. Its way easier to point at the problems, as Pierre the Poseur and Justin the Liar do very well. It is another story all together to propose policies that are designed to help the minority who need it but without disrupting the lifestyles of people who are doing all right under the current status quo.
Language is very important and in the years I served trying to elect left wing MP's we always had far more leftist viewpoints than the national drivel coming out of the NDP head office. The working people of Burnaby liked being called that and the messages were definitely class based. I have always thought we would likely have lost running on the milk toast centrist messages Jack's centrist advisors rolled out for election material.
Sat, 2022-11-19 19:47
#164
We don't need to target the middle class. We should be aiming at the 1%. Making the middle class feel as though the 1% are protecting their interests and we are attacking them is a terrible strategy.
Medicare is better because it is cheaper for everyone. That everyone gets health care is great but if it were more expensive than private health care it would be a much harder sell.
Basic income means that yes. Some people will take advantage of it. Some will be lazy. Some will work under the table. But the majority will lift themselves out of poverty and improve their lives and pay it back in taxes.
It's nice to have breakfast and lunch programs in under-privileged schools to be kind to the children but it is also wise because they will be better behaved and learn more and become better citizens because of it. We need that as a country. So don't do it for the children, do it for ourselves.
Clean air contributes more to quality of life than Dollarama shopping sprees.
Tue, 2022-11-22 12:32
#165
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