2023/24 Hamas / Iran / Palestine - Israel war

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JKR
2023/24 Hamas / Iran / Palestine - Israel war

October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict - Wikipedia

October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflictPart of the Arab–Israeli conflict

On 7 October 2023, Palestinian militant groups[e] led by Hamas launched a large-scale invasion and offensive against Israel from the Gaza Strip, breaking through the Gaza–Israel barrierand forcing entry via the Gaza border crossings, into nearby Israeli settlements and military installations. Hamas called it Operation al-Aqsa Storm. It is the first direct conflict within Israel's boundaries since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[32][33]Hostilities were initiated in the early morning with a rocket barrage against Israel and vehicle-transported incursions into Israeli territory, with several attacks on surrounding Israeli civilian communities and Israeli military bases. Some observers have referred to these events as the beginning of a third Palestinian intifada.[f] For the first time since the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Israel formally declared war.[35] The operation has been called Iron Swords by the IDF.[36]

The Palestinian invasion represented a boiling point in the breakdown of relations between the strip and Israel. This followed months of clashes between Israelis and Palestinians, including ones in Jenin and at Al-Aqsa mosque, that killed almost 250 Palestinians and 32 Israelis;[g] Hamas cited these events in the justification for the offensive. Mohammed Deif, the commander of its military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, called on Palestinians and Arab Israelis to "expel the occupiers and demolish the walls".[39] In an emergency meeting in the West Bank shortly after the attacks began, Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority expressed support for the Gazan infiltration, stating that Palestinians had the right to defend themselves against the Israeli occupation.[40][41] In Israel, Yair Lapid of Yesh Atid has advocated for the formation of a national unity governmentto combat the Palestinian offensive.[42]

At least 3,000 rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip as Hamas militants broke through the border and entered Israel, killing at least 700 Israelis[43][44] and prompting Israel's government to declare a state of emergency. Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahustated that Israel "is at war" in a national address following the beginning of the attacks.[45][46][47] Palestinian militants who infiltrated Israel made their way into several kibbutzim near the Gaza Strip as well as the city of Sderot.[48] The Palestinian Ministry of Health led by Hamas in Gaza reported Israel had killed at least 400 Palestinians in gunfights and by airstrikes, including civilians, 78 children and 41 women;[49][50] while the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stated it killed more than 400 "terrorists".[51]Both Palestinian and Israeli media sources reported that Israeli soldiers and civilians, including children, had been taken hostage by Palestinian militants;[52] several of these hostages have reportedly since been taken to the Gaza Strip. Numerous cases of violence against Israeli civilians have also been reported since the beginning of the Hamas offensive, including a massacre at a music festival in Re'im.[53][54]. Israel retaliated against the invasion by shelling civilian targets in Gaza,[55] including a hospital and ambulance, killing almost 200.[56][57]

A Hamas spokesman announced Iran supported the Palestinian offensive and claimed the attack came in response to attacks by Jewish settlers in the West Bank.[58] Nations of the Western worldas well as its allies condemned Hamas for the violence and described the tactics used as terrorism,[59][60][61][62]while some Muslim countries blamed the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and the denial of Palestinian self-determination as the root cause of the escalation.[63][h] Others called for de-escalation.[66][67]
 

Paladin1

The pro-Hamas and pro-Russian supporters are going to be fighting for prime rally real estate in the big cities in Canada.

JKR

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel has 'only started' striking Hamas; By The Associated Press; October 9, 2023, 11:50 AM

JERUSALEM -- Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel has 'only started' striking Hamas.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel has “only started” a fierce offensive in the Gaza Strip in response to Hamas’ unprecedented attack on his country.

Mr Netanyahu delivered the pronouncement in a nationally televised address as Israel pressed ahead with a third day of heavy airstrikes in Gaza.

“We have only started striking Hamas,” he said. “What we will do to our enemies in the coming days will reverberate with them for generations.”

josh

the level of disinformation on israel-hamas war being algorithmically promoted on twitter is unlike anything i’ve ever been exposed to in my career as a political scientist.

https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1711459471363391498?s=20

josh

The situation is so bad on X right now that even seasoned OSINT researchers are being duped by fake accounts, including one that shared a false claim about Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu being hospitalized over the weekend.”

https://x.com/onthemedia/status/1711432172052095174?s=20

Beware.

Paladin1

Josh you should use the quote.

Michael Moriarity

I find myself agreeing with David Doel a lot lately, and I endorse his take on this war.

Paladin1

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I find myself agreeing with David Doel a lot lately, and I endorse his take on this war.

That's a good video and good summary of the situation between Israel and Palestine. Especially Israel having all the power. World superpowers should have done more to address the situation years and years ago.

It would be nice if Egypt could cut off a chunk of their eastern territory and give it to Palestine to expand in peace. East of Arish down to Al Qusaymah or something.

jerrym

Paladin1 wrote:

It would be nice if Egypt could cut off a chunk of their eastern territory and give it to Palestine to expand in peace. East of Arish down to Al Qusaymah or something.

Israel should just give the Palestinians what they are internationally recognized as being theirs by UN resolution: according to the UN website "Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful under international law due to its permanence and the Israeli government’s de facto annexation policies, a UN-appointed Commission of Inquiry said in its first report, published on Thursday". (https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129722)
Instead Netanyahu showed up at the UN with a map of Israel that contained all the land of the Palestinians.

Quote:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu angered Palestinians and their defenders Friday after presenting a map of "The New Middle East" without Palestine during his speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

Speaking to a largely empty chamber, Netanyahu—whose far-right government is widely considered the most extreme in Israeli history—showed a series of maps, including one that did not show the West Bank, East Jerusalem, or Gaza. These Palestinian territories have been illegally occupied by Israel since 1967, with the exception of Gaza—from which Israeli forces withdrew in 2005, while maintaining an economic stranglehold over the densely populated coastal strip.

Middle East Eyereported Netanyahu also held up a map of "Israel in 1948"—the year the modern Jewish state was established, largely through the ethnic cleansing of more than 750,000 Arabs—that erroneously included the Palestinian territories as part of Israel.


https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map

JKR

Paladin1 wrote:

It would be nice if Egypt could cut off a chunk of their eastern territory and give it to Palestine to expand in peace. East of Arish down to Al Qusaymah or something.

Maybe a peace plan could established where Egypt just takes back the Gaza Strip and where Jordan just takes back parts of the West Bank?

josh

That has been rejected by Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinians.

JohnInAlberta JohnInAlberta's picture

JKR wrote:

Maybe a peace plan could established where Egypt just takes back the Gaza Strip and where Jordan just takes back parts of the West Bank?

Because that worked so well in 1973?

josh

The Israeli media now confirming that the gov't did receive clear warnings from Egyptian intelligence about the imminent attack that occurred on October 7. The PM's office initially issued a flat denial after the first report, but then did an about face and admitted it.

https://x.com/lisang/status/1711824708746838214?s=20

jerrym

Journalist Noya Tarnospolsky on the Chris Hayes show on MSNBC quoted Netanyahu as saying in March 2019 to Likud members of the Israeli Knesset "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy".  The idea was to ensure that Hamas has enough funds to  continue its quarrel with Palestinian authority so they do not create a common front for the creation of a Palestinian state at the same time Netanyahu tells Israelis that they cannot allow the creation of a Palestinian state because it would involve the more radical Hamas, not just the Palestinian Authority.

On CBC News Network, former Canadian Ambassador to Israel Jon Allen backed this up, explaining that Netanyahu allowed Qatar to fund Hamas in order to keep it from working with the Palestinian Authority towards the creation of a Palestinian state, following the tried and true right-wing strategy of creating fear, fear and fear, so that people don't think rationally.

This is now known as the Netanyahu strategy and an Israeli backlash against him has begun for his failure to protect Israelis from Hamas, in part because of this strategy, arguing that he has betrayed Israel. Some believe that soon after the current crisis is over, Netanyahu's political career will be finished. However, he is a shrewd survivor that has exited many scandals as PM, the most famous being his portraying Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin  as a Nazi for signing the Oslo Peace Accords and later becoming Prime Minister again. However, this time I think this could well be the end of Netanyahu's political career. 

jerrym

Jewish writer Peter Beinart pointed out that even if the Israelis somehow wiped out Hamas, their would always be another and then another radical organization to replace Hamas until the Palestinian statehood is achieved, whether it takes years, decades or centuries. Jewish writer Peter Beinart pointed out that even if the Israelis somehow wiped out Hamas, their would always be another and then another radical organization to replace Hamas until the Palestinian question is solved, whether it takes years, decades or centuries. Remember it took 750 years and many failed rebellions for the Irish to win their independence, only achieving at the height of English power, when it ruled one quarter of the world and had an army that had just fought WWI. These issues do not go away simply because a group is labelled terrorist and defeated. 

josh

I'm getting a lot of question about the reports of "Hamas beheaded babies” that were published after the media tour in the village. During the tour we didn’t see any evidence of this, and the army spokesperson or commanders also didn’t mention any such incidents.

https://x.com/OrenZiv_/status/1712038436910055925?s=20

josh

the Gaza Energy Authority announced that it ran out of fuel. Gaza's sole power plant will stop working at 2pm local time. Soon all services vital for the survival of the population, including hospitals, will no longer function.

https://x.com/AlMezanCenter/status/1712052361470865849?s=20

JKR

Hamas gunmen ‘killed families in their beds’ at Kfar Aza kibbutz, say Israeli forces; The Guardian; October 11, 2023

Grim scene of ‘massacre’ at one of the first Israeli settlements reached by militants during assault

In Kfar Aza, no one was too old, too young or too weak for slaughter. It took the Israeli army half a day to reach the kibbutz of 750 people in southern Israel and fighting continued there for three days. In that time Hamas gunmen killed and mutilated dozens of civilian residents.

“Mothers, fathers, babies, young families killed in their beds, in the protection room, in the dining room, in their garden,” Maj Gen Itai Veruv of the Israel Defence Forces told the BBC, as his troops searched homes for bodies of victims. “It’s not a war, it’s not a battlefield. It’s a massacre.”

The kibbutz was one of the first Israeli communities reached by Hamas militants when they launched an assault early on Saturday morning. What happened there has echoes of accounts from the nearby Nahal Oz kibbutz, where entire families are believed to have been gunned down, and Be’eri kibbutz, where Israeli rescue teams say they have found more than 100 bodies.

The community in Kfar Aza had a security team, and houses had safe rooms, but they – like the highest echelons of the Israeli army and government – were not prepared for the wave of attackers racing out of the breached Gaza.

Rampaging fighters armed with assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and hand-grenades gunned down dozens of residents and mutilated some of the bodies, Veruv and other soldiers said, describing a number of atrocities.

“They killed them and cut some of their heads, it’s a dreadful thing to see,” Davidi Ben Zion, the deputy commander of Unit 71, the paratroopers who led the Israeli forces into Kfar Aza, told Reuters.

“Thank God we saved many lives of many parents and children,” he said. “Unfortunately, some were burned by molotov [cocktails]. They are very aggressive, like animals.”

josh

The Israeli Air Force strikes the Syrian airports in Damascus and Aleppo.

kropotkin1951

A nuclear armed terrorist state bombs its neighbours and its neighbours are convinced the leadership in Israel is likely delusional enough to use a "tactical" nuke so they don't bomb back. Thanks to their friends in the imperial heartland.

Qualitative Military Edge (QME) is a concept in US foreign policy. The U.S. commits itself to maintain Israel's qualitative military edge (QME) – that is, the technological, tactical, and other advantages that allow it to deter numerically superior adversaries.[42] This policy is defined in current US law.[43][44][45]

jerrym

Aljazeera is reporting that Itamar Ben-Gvir, a leader of the West Bank settler movement who was National Security Minister of Israel and who " favours freer open-fire regulations for Israeli security forces in the face of Arab unrest" (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/top-ministers-israels-new-reli...), is furious about being left out of the unified war cabinet and is threatening to create settler violence because of this.  Ben Gvir "has faced charges of hate speech" and "previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir)

6079_Smith_W

Great news. That psycho belongs in a locked box.

I wonder how much they had to press for that decision.

josh

Israeli officer in NYT: "This war could have been avoided. No one did enough to prevent it. Israel did not do enough to make peace; we just conquered the Palestinian territories in the West Bank, expanded illegal settlements and imposed a siege on Gaza."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/opinion/israel-military-war.html?smid...

JKR

Hamas terrorists seen holding kidnapped Israeli children, babies in vile footage

Warning disturbing content 

Hamas has released a disturbing new video showing armed men playing with and clutching kidnapped Israeli children and babies in an apparent attempt to spin a narrative about how the terrorist group is treating captives. 

The video features a number of unidentified men wearing fatigues and tactical vests appearing to dote on the young hostages at what appears to be a typical suburban home.

In one segment, the older child, no older than 5, sits in the lap of one of his captors as the terrorist slowly rocks the baby in a carriage, an assault rifle clearly visible on a nearby table. 

At one point a different militant cradles the baby in one arm while holding an automatic weapon with the other. All of the adult’s faces are blurred out in the footage.

Near the end of the clip, a man wearing a balaclava and a green headband holds a child in each arm and directly addresses the camera in Arabic.

When it comes to war crimes, those involving children are considered particularly egregious in the international community.

The UN has identified abducting children in war as one of its six “grave violations” the international organization condemns alongside atrocities like attacks against hospitals or schools and recruiting child soldiers.

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:
<

When it comes to war crimes, those involving children are considered particularly egregious in the international community.

The UN has identified abducting children in war as one of its six “grave violations” the international organization condemns alongside atrocities like attacks against hospitals or schools and recruiting child soldiers.

RAMALLAH, 17 Oct 2023 - More than 1,000 children have reportedly been killed in 11 days of airstrikes on Gaza -- one child every 15 minutes[1] -- with children making up a third of total fatalities in Gaza, Save the Children said on Tuesday, calling for an immediate ceasefire.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/save-childre...

As usual you seem to be a cheerleader in a war where civilians are suffering from atrocities committed by both sides.

kropotkin1951

Speaking of war crimes and hospitals.

The Gaza Health Ministry said an Israeli airstrike Tuesday hit a Gaza City hospital packed with wounded and other Palestinians seeking shelter, killing hundreds. If confirmed, the attack would be by far the deadliest Israeli airstrike in five wars fought since 2008.

Photos from al-Ahli Hospital showed fire engulfing the hospital halls, shattered glass and body parts scattered across the area. The ministry said at least 500 people had been killed.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2018847/hundreds-killed-in-israe...

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

As usual you seem to be a cheerleader in a war where civilians are suffering from atrocities committed by both sides.

As usual you seem to be a denier of the atrocities being committed against those you feel don’t merit being protected by international human rights and laws. Unfortunately Israel has to deal with the situation where many feel Israel doesn’t have the right to exist and that Israel should be destroyed.

JKR

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1714629201376993431?s=46&t=ticRmUdTUGERBFdZXsHlgQ

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: I'm telling you this is the first time that we see a missile like this falling. And so that's why we are saying it belongs to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: What?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: They are saying it belongs to Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: It's from us?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: It looks like it!

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: Who says this?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israel shrapnel.

Islamic Jihad Operative #1:  What are you saying?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: But God bless, it couldn't have found another place to explode?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: Never mind, yes, they shot it from the cemetery behind the hospital.

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: What?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: They shot it coming from the cemetery behind the Al-Ma'amadani Hospital and it misfired and fell on them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

josh

https://x.com/itranslate123/status/1714567990966997240?s=46&t=sbdQQeYBqp...

https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1714608757081018686?s=46&t=sbdQQeYB...

The fog of war. Truth is the first casualty of war. Both made worse by social media.

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

oldgoat

JKR wrote:

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1714629201376993431?s=46&t=ticRmUdTUGERBFdZXsHlgQ

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: I'm telling you this is the first time that we see a missile like this falling. And so that's why we are saying it belongs to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: What?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: They are saying it belongs to Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: It's from us?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: It looks like it!

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: Who says this?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israel shrapnel.

Islamic Jihad Operative #1:  What are you saying?

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: But God bless, it couldn't have found another place to explode?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: Never mind, yes, they shot it from the cemetery behind the hospital.

Islamic Jihad Operative #2: What?

Islamic Jihad Operative #1: They shot it coming from the cemetery behind the Al-Ma'amadani Hospital and it misfired and fell on them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among all the distraction and misinformation floating around, I find this nugget to be one of the more dubious. Israeli Intelligence, already not having it's best month, just happens to come across a recording of two militants chatting about the missile strike and conveniently incriminating themselves. This strikes me as just part of the wall of noise being thrown up to confound any legitimate informed discussion.

Michael Moriarity

I agree with oldgoat. This story is severely credibility challenged.

oldgoat

While I'm awake and apparently lucid, I' like to recommend a book I first read some years ago, and appears to be still available. 

https://www.plutobooks.com/9781783714285/israeli-rejectionism/

Israeli Rejectionism: A hidden Agenda in the Middle East Peace Process    Amit and Levit;  Pluto Press 2011

For an academically solid book, it's mercifully short, and a very accessible read.  The authors contend, convincingly to my mind, that right from the beginning Israeli leadership has stalled and sabatoged any possibility of a negotiated peace, with the aim of reducing the Palestinian presence to an insignificant minority.

JKR

US, Israel: Intel From Gaza Hospital Blast Points to Palestinian Group

https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-israel-intel-from-gaza-hospital-blast-points-to-palestinian-group-/7316541.html

The United States is standing by Israel, pushing back against accusations by Hamas and other Palestinian officials that Israel is to blame for an explosion at a hospital that has left hundreds of people dead.

Video of the explosion late Tuesday at the Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza quickly circulated on television and social media, sparking outrage and protests in countries across the region.

But U.S. President Joe Biden, speaking during a visit to Tel Aviv on Wednesday, said U.S. intelligence indicates Israel is not to blame.

"Based on the information we've seen to date; it appears as a result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza," Biden said.

U.S. defense and intelligence officials Wednesday declined to elaborate on the president's assessment, but said it draws on multiple sources.

The evaluation is "based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information," said U.S. National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson, adding that all currently available intelligence points to the same conclusion.

"Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday," she said.

josh

The U.S. standing by Israel?  Stunning.

josh

US vetoes UN resolution condemning all violence against civilians in Israel-Hamas war

https://apnews.com/article/un-security-council-resolution-gaza-hamas-1c2...

jerrym

"US vetoes UN’s call for ‘humanitarian pause’ and corridors into Gaza": Israel can do no wrong, so the US makes sure there is no stop in bombing anywhere is Gaza. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/us-vetoes-un-call-for-huma...

josh
josh

Hundreds of demonstrators descended on a congressional building in Washington on Wednesday afternoon to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war, resulting in an estimated 300 arrests and restricting access to Capitol Hill.

The rally was organized by two Jewish anti-Zionist groups, Jewish Voice for Peace and If Not Now, and about 400 of their members assembled inside the rotunda of the Cannon House Office Building, led by about 25 rabbis reading testimonials from Palestinians in Gaza and reciting prayers. Outside, hundreds more chanted, “Cease-fire now” and sang in Hebrew and English.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world/middleeast/protest-israel-hamas...

josh

Anglican Archbishop Hosam Naoum says the Baptist Hospital in Gaza was called by the Israeli military three days in a row on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, warning them that the hospital would be hit by Israel.

It was then bombed on Tuesday.

https://x.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1714970229019725957?s=20

kropotkin1951

I wish Canada had a political force like Sinn Fein. Here is a statement that I can completely agree with.

"How come we never hear the words ‘PALESTINE has the right to defend itself’? "We need ceasefires, and end to occupation, a lasting peace and a free Palestine."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7fMYRJpglM

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

"We need ceasefires, and end to occupation, a lasting peace and a free Palestine."

Hamas and other groups like it have no interest in peace as they want to kill Jews “from the river to the sea.”

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:

"We need ceasefires, and end to occupation, a lasting peace and a free Palestine."

Hamas and other groups like it have no interest in peace as they want to kill Jews “from the river to the sea.”

You are unbelievable. Talk about drinking the koolaid.

kropotkin1951

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s return to power in Israel with a narrow, extreme right-wing coalition has shattered even the illusion of a two-state solution. Members of his new government have not been shy about stating their views on what Israel is and what it should be in all the territories it controls: a Greater Israel defined not just as a Jewish state but one in which the law enshrines Jewish supremacy over all Palestinians who remain there. As a result, it is no longer possible to avoid confronting a one-state reality.

Israel’s radical new government did not create this reality but rather made it impossible to deny. The temporary status of “occupation” of the Palestinian territories is now a permanent condition in which one state ruled by one group of people rules over another group of people. The promise of a two-state solution made sense as an alternative future in the years around the 1993 Oslo accords, when there were constituencies for compromise on both the Israeli and the Palestinian sides and when tangible if fleeting progress was made toward building the institutions of a hypothetical Palestinian state. But that period ended long ago. Today, it makes little sense to let fantastical visions for the future obscure deeply embedded existing arrangements.

It is past time to grapple with what a one-state reality means for policy, politics, and analysis. Palestine is not a state in waiting, and Israel is not a democratic state incidentally occupying Palestinian territory. All the territory west of the Jordan River has long constituted a single state under Israeli rule, where the land and the people are subject to radically different legal regimes, and Palestinians are permanently treated as a lower caste. Policymakers and analysts who ignore this one-state reality will be condemned to failure and irrelevance, doing little beyond providing a smokescreen for the entrenchment of the status quo.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/israel-palestine-one-state-so...

josh

Israel Police: Anti-war protesters will be sent to Gaza

Israeli police chief says there's a ‘zero tolerance’ police for anti-war protests, threatening to send them to Gaza in buses.

https://x.com/MiddleEastMnt/status/1715025366329270677?s=20

jerrym

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I wish Canada had a political force like Sinn Fein. Here is a statement that I can completely agree with.

"How come we never hear the words ‘PALESTINE has the right to defend itself’? "We need ceasefires, and end to occupation, a lasting peace and a free Palestine."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7fMYRJpglM


Sinn Fein has been the political arm of the IRA for one hundred years. Today it leads in the polls for the next Republic of Ireland election because more people see it as meeting the people's needs in terms of housing and the cost of living. It is also the leading party in Northern Ireland. For many its connection to the IRA makes it a "terrorist" organization. However, nearly every independence movement that involved a fight against an occupying power has involved a "terrorist" organization. When they won independence, the leader often then became fathers of their country, a la Kenyatta in Kenya, Mandela in South Africa, and Michael Collins in Ireland. For that matter, two of the Israeli Prime Ministers were leaders of Israeli "terrorist" paramilitaries: Menachem Begin, who joined the Irgun, "an underground Zionist paramilitary organization. ... He assumed the Irgun's leadership in 1944. Begin had studied the Irish War of Independence and the Indian independence movement, and, while planning the rebellion with Irgun commanders." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin) The Irgun bombed offices and attacked police stations. YItzak Shamir, split from the Irgun and joined the more militant faction Lehi, also known as the Stern Gang. ...Shamir became the leader of the Stern Gang, In his memoirs, Shamir admitted the killing of co-leader Giladi in 1943 was ordered by Shamir himself... and authorized the assassination of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte", (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir) who had "achieved an initial truce during the subsequent 1948 Arab–Israeli War" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte) that Shamir did not like.

I don't support violence as a means of gaining one's poltical ends, but there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black on the Israeli side, because they used violence and terrorism to create the Israeli state. In the end there are only three possible solutions: one side exterminates the other; they reach a political solution that involves respect for the other side; or they continue intermittent wars, possibly for centuries, as in Ireland where intermittent wars went on for eight centuries of English occupation until the Good Friday Agreement in 1997, in which Northern Ireland remains with England unless a majority vote to join the Republic which may happen soon as the Catholics are now the largest group in Northern Ireland according to the 2021 census. So far that Agreement is holding. Israel and the US need to accept a two state solution or there will be ongoing intermittent wars, just like the five that have occurred in Gaza since 2005.

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You are unbelievable. Talk about drinking the koolaid.

You have to drink something much harder than koolaid to think Hamas wants peace.

josh

Dozens of Israelis arrested for
social media posts defending
Gaza, advocates say In addition to the arrests, 70 students are facing disciplinary action from their schools over posts about the conflict.

https://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1715309271506637086/photo/1

josh

US and European govts have been putting pressure on Israel to DELAY its ground invasion of Gaza to buy time for secret talks underway via Qatar to win the release of hostages held by Hamas

https://x.com/jenniferjjacobs/status/1715418354511388865?s=46&t=sbdQQeYB...

josh

A policy paper from Misgav thinktank - headed by Netanyahu's former national security advisor: Israel now has an "rare and exceptional opportunity to remove all Palestinians from Gaza to Egypt"

https://x.com/yairwallach/status/1715395338922545312?s=46&t=sbdQQeYBqp0h...

josh

Former U.S. congressman’s relatives killed in Israeli bombing of Orthodox Church in Gaza.

https://x.com/justinamash/status/1715470077196194068?s=46&t=sbdQQeYBqp0h...

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:

You are unbelievable. Talk about drinking the koolaid.

You have to drink something much harder than koolaid to think Hamas wants peace.

I never said Hamas wants peace I said Palestinians want peace. It is apparent you cannot tell the difference between a terrorist and a civilian, That seems to be a persistent Israeli problem as well.

Hamas was a creation of the Israeli government. Maybe they should have just tried to make peace with Fatah but instead they created a monster and the blow back is killing civilians from both communities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Em8_bMmpSs

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