Former Saskatchewan (Conservative) MP Dave Batters Commits Suicide

22 posts / 0 new

Wed, 2009-07-01 18:45

Coyote

[url=http://www.canada.com/Former+Sask+Dave+Batters+commits+suicide/1747825/s... news[/url].

This is one that has really shaken alot of people. Saskatchewan political circles are small; if you are engaged in party politics to a particular degree, everybody pretty much knows everybody else (or who everybody else is, at any rate). I never met Mr. Batters but I am good friends with one of his best friends from outside of political life, and I am friendly with many of his political contemporaries.

I think what has a lot of people rattled is how long it has been known that was a very real potential.

I've said my share of unkind things about Mr. Batters and his politics, but the kind of Hell depression inflicts, just no one deserves that; nor does anyone deserve the stigma of depression that has crippled so many in their bewildering attempt to build a better life.

We can do better, and we must.

Wed, 2009-07-01 19:12

martin dufresne

Coyote, do you know what is the undisclosed "incident" that preceded Batters' hospitalization two years ago?

Wed, 2009-07-01 19:23

Sven

Coyote wrote:

I've said my share of unkind things about Mr. Batters and his politics, but the kind of Hell depression inflicts, just no one deserves that; nor does anyone deserve the stigma of depression that has crippled so many in their bewildering attempt to build a better life.

We can do better, and we must.

It's been stimatized for too long.

_______________________________________

[b]Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!![/b]

Wed, 2009-07-01 21:48

Stockholm

martin dufresne wrote:

Coyote, do you know what is the undisclosed "incident" that preceded Batters' hospitalization two years ago?

wasn't it a previous suicide attempt?

Wed, 2009-07-01 23:11

Coyote

To be clear I know nothing further in depth than the speculation that is already out there. There have indeed been reports that it was a previous suicide attempt.

I understand that he had numerous rough patches in his short life.

Whatever the reality, I wish his family nothing but the best as they try to recover from this tragedy.

On a personal note, suicide has been rather a constant theme in my life; I'm staggered by the amount of people who have been lost on a consistent basis since I was very young. One in particular earlier this year, a long-time friend and incredible activist and New Democrat in Saskatoon, hit me and a number of others very hard.

Thu, 2009-07-02 00:03

Coyote

[url=http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ZlebAjm-The-Corrs-Everybody-Hurts]This[/url] has helped in some rough patches - which kinda surprises even me.

Thu, 2009-07-02 02:46

G. Muffin

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

This one, especially:

Quote:
People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.

Thu, 2009-07-02 07:20

Sven

G. Pie wrote:

People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.

I've not done much reading about suicide but I have empathy for those who are depressed and considering suicide because I have battled depression myself for many years (and have had some very compelling suicidal thoughts). For me, while I understand that I would not feel the relief that suicide is intended to provide, I know that suicide would stop the pain that I sometimes suffer from (it's a somewhat subtle distinction). The things that have kept me going are thoughts about the true pleasures in life which I enjoy and which I would miss out experiencing and I think about how sad some people I love would feel if I were to commit suicide (and I wouldn't want them to feel that pain). Absent those two things, I would likely be gone now.

From a completely different angle, I think society must (or should) respect personal autonomy, particularly in the context of a terminally ill person who is suffering great pain. I was just talking with a colleague the other day and I said that if I'm in such a condition, I God damn well want the right to buy a one-way ticket to Oregon (where physician-assisted suicide is legal and practiced).

But, back to depression-related suicide. Society cannot prevent all such suicides (and it would be a waste of resource to attempt to do so). But, society can take steps to prevent some (and perhaps many) such suicides.

_______________________________________

[b]Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!![/b]

Thu, 2009-07-02 07:32

Michelle

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, Sven. Hugs. :)

Thu, 2009-07-02 08:06

#10

Sven

Michelle wrote:

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, Sven. Hugs. :)

Thank you, Michelle. I appreciate that.

While I don't make it a point to go out of my way to frequently discuss my depression (I don't want to be a woe-is-me person), I think it is important for those who do feel comfortable about talking about their depression (as I do) to do so at appropriate times (such as in a thread like this) because people who are silently suffering depression need to understand that they are not alone in their suffering and that it's not something to be ashamed of and hidden. I think that is the best way to combat the remaining stigma of depression.

_______________________________________

[b]Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!![/b]

Thu, 2009-07-02 08:10

#11

remind

Hmmm, seems like the end of June is a trigger for him, as it was almost exactly a year ago that his other incident happened.

Wish his family all the best.

Thu, 2009-07-02 08:25

#12

HeywoodFloyd

martin dufresne wrote:

Coyote, do you know what is the undisclosed "incident" that preceded Batters' hospitalization two years ago?

I find it offensive that you would ask such a thing.

This is a personal matter for the family. Why it is any of your business? Even if Coyote has some inside information, it would be a huge betrayal of their friendship to discuss it in a public place. Not to mention that this would be a permanent record, available for all to see for the forseeable future, inlcuding his loved ones. Why should they be forced to relive innuendo and rumour about his death circulating for years to come? They have enough to deal with as it is.

Thu, 2009-07-02 08:44

#13

josh

I thought it was an innocuous question. As tragic as his death was, the man was a public figure. Therefore, it was a legitimate question to ask. And one that need not be answered, if that's the choice.

Thu, 2021-11-25 13:26

#14

jfb

Thu, 2009-07-02 10:12

#15

KenS

I had a friend who had a trajectory with serious depression that sounds very similiar to Batters, including the ending at the same age.

When people are in really, really deep, and have been been there before, they are beyond logical stuff like 'you won't feel the relief unless you are alive'. Ditto even the pain you will cause others. My friend knew that all too well, and the burdens he would leave us with... it only added to his despair.

I don't want to sound despairing about helping people that bad off, but it sure isn't easy: on a personal level, and probably on a collective level either.

I have never really thought hard what we can all do about it, let alone done any research, but common sense tells me that the best that can be done is to get to people early. That was the hindsight part about my friend: we wished we had done more before he got seemingly beyond hope. And there is probably an intersection there with public policy- so it s a good thing mental health infrastructure and spending needs have been getting a higher profile the last few years.

Thu, 2009-07-02 10:38

#16

HeywoodFloyd

janfromthebruce wrote:

A serious problem for families of loved ones who committed suicide is the hurt, shame and secrecy associated with it - it is extremely hard for the family and those close do to "the silencing" - self imposed and imposed by society/culture.

Heywood, it is a personal matter but being able to talk "openly" about suicide and about suicide prevention, along with "how to support the family/loved ones" is very important discussion. If we keep it private, we keep it locked up in a hidden shameful and hurtful place. ....

Jan, in general I agree. How to support A family suffering through this is a valid conversation. However, that wasn't what was being asked. People were looking for specifically personal information about one specific family having this problem. His loved ones never signed on for a public review of their lives and issues, which includes whatever issues the victim was going through. If they want to come on here and disuss it that is one thing. For us to discuss their pain in public and inquire of someone who may have not publically disclosed information to disclose it is rude beyond belief.

Thu, 2009-07-02 15:09

#17

Coyote

I don't think the question was malicious, Heywood, although I do understand your feelings in this. I think assuming the best - i.e., an honest question asked in an honest attempt to piece together the loss of a public figure - is probably wisest in this case.

Sven, sorry to hear about your struggles. I too have struggled with deep depression at different points in my life; and I have, yes, needed to fight back suicidal impulses. A mixture of medication, counselling, family, faith, and friends has been essential in my recovery from depression.

We all do what we can, in this life.

Thu, 2009-07-02 16:13

#18

Coyote

The family has now publicly acknowledged that the episode last September was indeed a suicide attempt. I must commend the family of Mr. Batters for their courage in dealing with this terrible event.

Thu, 2009-07-02 17:13

#19

KenS

I've been thinking that, yes, its courageous of the family to be so open about Dave Batter's struggle.

But its probably also very good for them. Despite my friend that killed himself having a lot of friends, and none of us feeling any shame or wanting to hide... there was still a feeling of isolation. Things like- "doesn't anyone care?" ... even when you know intellectually how unreasonable that is.

Thu, 2009-07-02 17:25

#20

miles

This is just so very sad. Mrs Miles father had 3 suicide attempts. thank g-d he has survived them all but the pain on him, and the feeling of helpessness on the family is tough

what is worse are those "former" friends who are embarassed by her dad's actions.

in many ways mental illness is the red mark of our modern society.

Thu, 2009-07-02 20:08

#21

Debater

I guess this explains his sudden departure as MP last year after having only been in office for a few years. I didn't realize his problems were that serious.

He wasn't exactly a progressive MP and I would have preferred Dick Proctor to have remained MP, but it's still too bad these struggles are so common.

Thu, 2021-11-25 13:27

#22

jfb