http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florida-pulse-nightclub-shooting-1.3631419
Some media are pointing out that it was an LGBT club. Others (like CBC) not. And there have been conflicting reports as to motive.
A family member has come forward to say the mass murderer was enraged when he recently saw two men kissing.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/florida-gay-club-mass-shooter-angry-about-t...
Horrible thing to see any day, but the day after Pride, especially.
... not pointing it out in the headline, that is. It is in the body of the story. But considering many people don't get past the headline it is a downplaying of the motive.
There will always be "motives". And, at least in the United States, there will always be "means". God bless America.
Deadliest Mass Shooting in US History: 50 Dead, 53 Injured in Orlando Gay Club Massacre (and vid)
https://www.rt.com/usa/346339-gay-club-orlando-shooting/
"With 50 people dead, the Orlando shooting has become the deadliest massacre in US history..."
CP24 Toronto has interviewed someone from CSIS who is linking this with jihadi terrorism, echoing some US authorities.
#Orlando
Yep, call it Muslim terrorism and not what it blatently is, homophobia! At work this morning, I asked a fundamentalist Christisn co-worker if he had heard of the massacre, and he said that he cares more about the 4000 babies that are murdered every day due to abortions. The MSM is racist and homophobic, and too many people are indifferent because of who the victims were.
Well you could call it fundamentalist homophobic terrorism; fundies of many faiths are brothers in their hatred of LGBT people. It is a horrible crime, and one that must not be forgotten. We will have to wait for more details...
Yep, call it Muslim terrorism and not what it blatently is, homophobia!
I'm not sure how one can so easily, and so quickly, delve into the mind of a dead stranger and draw conclusions.
What I am sure about is that any law-abiding citizen, or not, has a sacred right to amass secret arsenals in that brutal country to the south of us. And use them to commit mass murder. Sometimes the victims are queer, sometimes they're kids, sometimes they're women, sometimes they're racing and spectating, sometimes going for a night out at the theatre, or attending class at university, mostly they're just anybody anywhere.
There are two reasons for all of these mass murders:
1. Did I mention it's a brutal society? Human life, especially that of marginalized people at home and abroad, is considered disposable.
2. Closely connected with #1, owning, carrying, and using guns is considered as a human right.
And those who perpetuate #1 and #2 hold all the economic and political power in the land. When that power structure comes crashing down (which it inevitably will), whether through the empire rising up or through internal revolution, it will unfortunately end as it endures. Violently.
Well, when the father says to the media that the assailant was likely angry because he saw to men kissing, call it what it is. The MSM is trying to deflect from the homophobia by emphasizing his ethnicity and religious background, which I find problematic. And yes, weapons are a big factor, but so is the indifference to the incident that I have anecdotally witnessed this morning because of who the victims are.
We certainly have to wait to draw conclusions, but that does not mean that it is wrong to speculate that homophobia could well be a driving force in this horrible crime. That could be the case even if the shooter turned out to be gay himself...
I agree that we must wait to draw conclusions, but it is normal for humans to ask questions. Homophobia often turns violent.
What a depraved society. They're just awash in death. They bathe themselves in blood and lecture the rest of the world on how to live - when they're not bombing a country into democracy, that is.
Will the day come when the UN, sadly, identifies that country as a failed state and takes pity on the American people? When will the rest of the world, tired of the block-headed ignorance, fondness for hate, romance with death help the American people overcome their social illness? Don't we do it with an individual that keeps hurting themselves? Isn't it time we did it with that country?
In Ancient Rome a slave named Androcles took pity on a lion. The result was completely unexpected. Perhaps it is time that the rest of the world played that role with this dangerous lion and help remove the sliver that's driving it mad.
And yes, Unionist, you cannot offend the NRA, especially in an election year.
When you walk into a gay bar and open fire to exterminate the people who are inside that bar, i don't understand the hesitation to use the word homophobia. Geez! And, if he was an American citizen, why is the media bringing up his nation of birth and religion? Does this make him any less an American?
Islamophobia sells newspapers, homophobia does not.
Here's my take.
The U.S. is murderously homophobic. The U.S. is murderously Islamophobic. And misogynist, and racist, and anti-worker. And murderously imperialist and colonialist. And the first and only state to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians with nuclear weapons continues, 71 years later, to have collective orgasms over the sight of a firearm. And Obama couldn't even say: "Whoops, sorry about Hiroshima & Nagasaki!"
To delve into the motives of a dead stranger risks placing the blame for U.S. criminality on a handful of individuals who have committed mass murders. It's reminiscent of the NRA's "guns don't kill people - people kill people" mantra. In this case, it's not just some homophobic individual who kills LGBTQ folks - it's the United States.
Obama is still president. He leaves no legacy that I can discern. Just imagine if, today, he said: "That's it - I'm doing something, and to hell with anyone who disagrees!" Or just imagine if Hillary Rodham (who starting calling herself "Clinton" when her spouse became president) said something like that!
Like, actually doing something. Or even, actually, promising to do something.
Pardon my skepticism. Nothing will change. Nothing whatsoever. Except maybe more repression under the guise of "combatting domestic terrorism".
Exactly, Smith! And when the overwhealming majority of these mass murderers just happen to be wealthy, white, Christian background, men, the MSM does not ever harp on the whiteness, maleness, the wealth, and Americanness of these mass murderers. We simply don't want to associate white, able-bodied, wealthy men as being a problem. Yet, the intent of highlighting this assassin's national origin and religion is specifically designed to strike fear and hatred towards Muslims from other countries.
Aside from the fact that the probable motive WAS identified (see link in original post), the simple fact that it was directed at LGBT people makes it a hate issue.
Same as with violence against women and non-whites.
Doesn't matter that there may have been other factors like guns, religion or the American psyche or anything else. Let's not forget the central point here of who was murdered.
Whatever the motive of the attacker in Orlando, whether the assault is ultimately designated a terrorist attack, a hate crime, or simply another mass American shooting, everyone in the LGBT community has just been violently reminded that they can be targets of discrimination, from a sneer in an elevator to something deadly. It can be deadly just to be who you are.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-orlando-shooting-is-deadly...
It is also specifically designed to downplay the fact that the gay community was the target of what Smith correctly said was a deliberate hate crime.
Ironically the Orlando shooter worked for G4S a security company who obviously have quite the screening process for employees
Access to guns was obviously not a problem for him
It really is a shame the police were not able to just
subdue him rather than kill him Do the police always have to shoot to kill?
Republicans appear to avoid the LGBT connection whereas the Democrats explicitly bring it up
Yep, call it Muslim terrorism and not what it blatently is, homophobia!....
No doubt the Westboro Baptist Church will applaud but clearly there are religious-political connections in this crime beyond any generic homophobia associated with either mainstream Christianity or Islam.
The FBI investigated (obviously unsuccessfully) :
FBI learned of Mateen in 2013 after he made inflammatory remarks to coworkers and alleged terrorist ties, said FBI Special Agent In Charge Ron Hopper.http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-orlando-shooting-pu...
The FBI investigated and interviewed witnesses and Mateen, but closed the investigation. He came to the FBI's attention again in 2014 for making contact with a suicide bomber. FBI determined their connection was minimal and closed the investigated....Mateen - the lone gunman - called 911 moments before the attack and pledged his allegiance to Islamic State, a federal law enforcement official said, confirming earlier reports....
Notorious for their gruesome methods of killing, the Islamic State group reserves one of its most brutal for suspected homosexuals. Videos it has released show masked militants dangling men over the precipices of buildings by their legs to drop them head-first or tossing them over the edge. At least 36 men in Syria and Iraq have been killed by IS on charges of sodomy, according to the New York-based OutRight Action International, though its Middle East and North Africa coordinator, Hossein Alizadeh, said it was not possible to confirm the sexual orientation of the victims.https://nypost.com/2015/12/01/isis-is-just-as-disgustingly-homophobic-as...
The fear of a horrific death among gay men under Islamic State rule is further compounded by their isolation in a deeply conservative society that largely shuns them.
And if he was just a terrorist why wouldn't he have chosen a straight bar, rather than the one group that the community at large is going blame for getting themselves shot. Or complaining too much.
(and people are doing that).
It was also reported that his ex wife said he was in no way a religious person.
There's no doubt this was a vile, anti-LGBT i.e. homophobic attack but you have to ask: Why was he so homophobic that he'd murder 50 strangers because of their sexual orientation? Fact is that Abrahamic religions are all virulently anti-gay; there's little doubt in my mind that religion played a part in yesterday's attack ... he did, after all, pledge allegiance to ISIS / ISIL / Daesh while the attack was underway:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/
Nobody is born hating any identifiable group: it's taught, and religion does a lot of that sort of teaching.
[url=https://twitter.com/NoLore/status/742051288872030210]Nora Loreto tweeted[/url]:
On the Left we consistently argue that effect is more important than intent. This very much applies to the #orlando tragedy.
But the delving into a dead stranger's "intent" will continue - from which nothing good will come. This is a hate crime against LGBTQ people. It is a crime of the unrestrained firearms cartel against innocent civilians. It is a crime against humanity by the United States and its economic/political elites - the ones who are getting ready to replace Obama by another of their own.
The time for all victims of this brutal society is to mourn, then to rise up. They have done it before and they can do it again. If not, then nothing will change. Because the rulers are immune to mere shock and horror.
Florida governor Rick Scott refuses to acknowledge the LGBT community was targetted:
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/rick-scott-refuses-on-cnn-to-acknowledge...
And if he was just a terrorist why wouldn't he have chosen a straight bar, rather than the one group that the community at large is going blame for getting themselves shot. Or complaining too much.
(and people are doing that).
It was also reported that his ex wife said he was in no way a religious person.
"Just a terrorist" is a rather meaningless phrase which nobody here has said. His homophobia almost certainly preceded his other motives and connections, not that it makes any difference to the outcome,
After the couple split, a friend of Mateen’s said the young man became steadily more religious. The friend, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Mateen several years ago went on the pilgrimage to Mecca in Saudi Arabia known as the umrah.https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/ex-wife-of-suspec...
“He was quite religious,” the friend said.
He said Mateen had hoped to become a law enforcement officer but that plan never panned out.
If it is a meaningless phrase it is one many are using. The FBI. Obama. Donald Trump. The first caller on cross country jerkoff.
Rather than an argument for prohibiting citizens from having access to automatic weapons, I'm betting it will somehow become an anti-immigration argument.
[url=https://twitter.com/NoLore/status/742051288872030210]Nora Loreto tweeted[/url]:
On the Left we consistently argue that effect is more important than intent. This very much applies to the #orlando tragedy.But the delving into a dead stranger's "intent" will continue - from which nothing good will come. This is a hate crime against LGBTQ people. It is a crime of the unrestrained firearms cartel against innocent civilians. It is a crime against humanity by the United States and its economic/political elites - the ones who are getting ready to replace Obama by another of their own.
I somewhat disagree, though I would say causitive factors rather than "intent". It is important to consider the origins of violence whether by state, culture, group or individual. Calling it a "hate crime" (I don't disagree) is in itself attrbuting the workings of a dead strangers psyche and, in Canada at least, its determination in court is important.
I agree about destructive role of the firearms industry, but it couldn't have prevailed as long as it has without the approval of a sizable portion of the US populace, as well as the powerful lobby.
It's reminiscent of the NRA's "guns don't kill people - people kill people" mantra.
As it happens, this week was also marked by a number of news reports of people being mauled or killed by pit bulls.
But whenever the topic of banning pit bulls comes up, the first line of rebuttal is always "It's not the DOGS, it's the OWNERS!!!".
Which is kind of funny since guns really, actually DO require a human to pull their trigger, but dogs can act of their own accord.
I think the left misses the point. Islam believes homosexuality is punishable by death. Shar'ia law demands it. Therefore, the LGBTQ community is incompatible with the larger Muslim community. So the left needs to choose sides. You can't claim that the crime committed yesterday in Orlando is purely homophobia and a hate crime without accepting that it is caused by the religion of the perpetrator. I love how the left is quick to accuse fundamentalist Christians with horrible views, but gives fundamentalist Muslims with the same (or more extreme views) a complete pass as if they cannot be faulted for those views.
I despise the fact this has happened. I despise that the LGBTQ community was targeted. I despise the a complete lack of weapon control laws in America make it too easy to acquire firearms. But I will not ignore the INTENT. A fundamentalist Muslim who openly pledged allegiance to al-Baghdadi and ISIS and kills 50 people because of his religions beliefs must be called out for that. And the community that CREATED him must be called out. But don't try to claim a general dislike of homosexuals in western culture caused this - the views of homosexuality by non-Muslim Americans had NOTHING to do with this.
So it's all Islam, and non-Muslims have nothing to do with this.
And the governor of Florida can't even manage to bring the words out of his mouth.
I think the left misses the point. Islam believes homosexuality is punishable by death. Shar'ia law demands it. Therefore, the LGBTQ community is incompatible with the larger Muslim community.
Really?
I mean, maybe the much, much SMALLER Muslim community. And also the smaller Xtian community, and Jewish community, and just to confuse the issue, even some in the atheist/agnostic community.
So the left needs to choose sides.
It has. No more homophobia!
Gun Violence Is a Public Health Crisis, So Why Isn’t the CDC Researching It?
The short answer is that the gun lobby has managed to change laws to prohibit the research.
Shoot the gun lobbyists. Let God sort them out.
Ironically the Orlando shooter worked for G4S a security company who obviously have quite the screening process for employees Access to guns was obviously not a problem for him It really is a shame the police were not able to just subdue him rather than kill him Do the police always have to shoot to kill?
Not always, no.
When the person is killing people by the dozens, maybe, you know, just possibly.
LA Mayor says attack on Gay Pride Parade has been thwarted
Meanwhile, on the opposite coast. Of course since he appears to be of good old Anglo-Saxon stock, the media is not going to indulge itself in more Islam bashing, so expect this one to go away fast.
If the US can train sharpshooters to kill people maybe a kilometre away perhaps they can injure and subdue rather than kill at close quarters
Having the suspect alive is usually more helpful in trying to figure out what went wrong
Taliesyn, that anethema against gay people is shared by all fundamentalist strains of Abrahamic monotheism. Sometimes it comes down to just shunning (social death) but it is always looming.
Your stuff about "the left" is a huge warning flag...
Taliesyn, that anethema against gay people is shared by all fundamentalist strains of Abrahamic monotheism. Sometimes it comes down to just shunning (social death) but it is always looming.
Your stuff about "the left" is a huge warning flag...
That person insulted "the left" on a leftist site. Look at the crap he writes on his own site:
The NDP as problematic for me, because they are the party of socialism – and socialism has failed in EVERY instance where it has been tried. Mulcair isn’t really a hardcore socialist – he was a Liberal MNA in Quebec, which just about makes him a Conservative. But others in his party, who he would need to draw on to form a cabinet, scare me a lot more. These are people who think Naomi Klein and David Suzuki are sane and rational. And some of their promises will have EXACTLY the opposite effect they hope they will.
Fuck you. Have you read our policy statement?
Here is the rest of his Tory filth:
http://www.technicalbard.com/archives/1216
You have every right to freedom of speech, but this is actually a PRIVATE site and you have to abide by rabble and babble policy. Is that too much for a Randian free-marketer who wants to oppress the working class and poor to understand?
Fuck you again. Fuck off and die.
This creep claims to be a techie, but he is a climate change denier!
So it's all Islam, and non-Muslims have nothing to do with this.
And the governor of Florida can't even manage to bring the words out of his mouth.
I think I'm missing something WRT the Tweet you quoted: the Orlando shooter wasn't xtian and he was a registered Democrat:
http://voters.findthedata.com/l/28019600/Omar-Mir-Seddique-Mateen
I fail to see what the xtian right has to do with this hideous crime? I'm not about to defend a bunch of idiotic mythology-believing bible thumpers but in this case I don't see the connection.
Let's forget about all this religious hocus spokus and take a look at Mateen's family upbringing, and particularly take a look at the Dad.
Trump by-the-way, who hails from the same USA home town as Mateen, is accepting congrats for, in his mind, having forecast this tragedy.
Donald Trump Faces Backlash for Tweets About Orlando Shooting
http://time.com/4365411/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-tweet-congrats/
The Father of the Orlando Shooting Suspect Hosted an Obscure TV Show
http://time.com/4365623/orlando-shooting-suspect-father-afghanistan/
So much for G4S security firm being a responsible company, eh!
That company should be banned from doing business on US soil as incidents like these could possibly hand Trump the presidency.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/12/orlando_club_mass_shoo...
Jeremy Stahl5:26 PM
‘He Talked About Killing People All the Time’
The New York Times has a disturbing interview with one of Omar Mateen's former co-workers. “He talked about killing people all the time,” Daniel Gilroy, who worked with Mateen as private security guards at a Florida resort, told the newspaper. “He was just agitated about everything, always shaken, always agitated, always mad.”
The Times reported that Mateen “was prone to using racial, ethnic and sexual slurs,” according to Gilroy. He also said that Mateen sent him badgering text messages 20 or 30 times per day after their relationship grew tense and that he complained to their G4S company about his coworker’s loud, profane presence.
Thanks to the NRA
Official: Orlando Shooter Legally Purchased 2 Guns This Week
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omar-mateen-shooter-orlando-purcha...
Thanks to the NRA
Official: Orlando Shooter Legally Purchased 2 Guns This Week
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omar-mateen-shooter-orlando-purcha...
Only in America.
[url=http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/candlelight-vigils-t... in Canada - check for updates[/url]
Toronto, ON
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 8–10pm
Barbara Hall Park, 519 Church St, Toronto
Vancouver, BC
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 8pm
Vancouver Art Gallery, main steps (West Georgia side)
Ottawa, ON
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 8–9pm
Human Rights Monument, Ottawa
*Updated June 12, 2016, 7:09pm to add Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Peterborough, Halifax, Edmonton, Calgary, New Westminster, Whitehorse, Victoria and Montreal.*
Saskatoon, SK
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 9:30pm
222 Third Ave N, Saskatoon
Peterborough, ON
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 9–10:30pm
499 George St N, Peterborough
Victoria, BC
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 9pm
Broad Street (outside Paparazzi Nightclub), Victoria
Calgary, AB
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 9pm
228 Eight Ave SE, Olympic Plaza, Victoria
New Westminster, BC
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 7pm
Columbia Street and Church (Rainbow crosswalk), New Westminster
Edmonton, AB
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 8pm
10800 97 Ave NW, Edmonton
Whitehorse, YT
Sunday, June 12, 2016, 10pm
Kwanlin Dun Cultural Centre Fire Pit, Whitehorse
Halifax, ON
Monday, June 13, 2016, 8pm
Halifax Common, Peterborough
Winnipeg, MB
Monday, June 13, 2016, 8:30pm
Manitoba Legislative Building, 450 Broadway, Winnipeg
Montreal, QC
Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7–9pm
1294 rue panet, coin st-catherine, Montreal
I fail to see what the xtian right has to do with this hideous crime? I'm not about to defend a bunch of idiotic mythology-believing bible thumpers but in this case I don't see the connection.
Really? You don't see any connection between the organized campaigns demonizing LGBT people, and people who act on it? And this is hardly the only act of anti-gay violence.
Never mind that many of them are cheering it, and blaming the victims:
Pastor Steven Anderson: "fifty less pedophiles in the world"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUOBFjRGvPI&feature=youtu.be
Hours after the early Sunday morning shooting at a gay nightclub that left at least 50 people dead, Patrick sent a tweet from his personal account: “Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/texas-lieutenant-gov-deletes-tweet-w...
Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34 years old
Stanley Almodovar III, 23 years old
Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20 years old
Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22 years old
Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36 years old
Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22 years old
Luis S. Vielma, 22 years old
Kimberly Morris, 37 years old
[url=http://www.cityoforlando.net/blog/victims/]The names, so far[/url]
![http://oi66.tinypic.com/2zexxsp.jpg[/img]](http://oi66.tinypic.com/2zexxsp.jpg[/img]){kind=link}