Covid projections

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Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

From people who claim to care about "the greater good," celebrating someone's tragic death and blaming them for bringing it on themselves. This is despicable and vile. It's on the level of Fred Phelp's going around the country with his protests whenever there was a tragedy. How low this community has sunk.

When vocal anti-vaxxers die from Covid people shouldn’t be surprised when their mostly preventable demises are used as cautionary tales.

You mean the same way fundamentalist Christians in the 1980s used deaths from AIDS as a cautionary tale about the dangers of drug use and gay sex? After all, those things are technically choices that if the person didn't do then they wouldn't have died from AIDS.

Besides, why do you care so much what choices and risks other people take when it comes to their own health?

JKR

The fundamentalist Christians you allude to took those hateful positions because they hate gay people. On the other hand people who support Covid vaccination take that position not because they hate anyone but because they support the health of the entire community and not just their own personal health. People are concerned about the actions of others in regard to Covid because Covid is an airborne disease where people seriously affect those around them.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Cautionary tales are very different from condemnation and I think that what fundamentalists Christians did in the 1980s to fan hatred against the gay community goes far beyond reporting something as a cautionary tale. 

I think for the most part the media and social networks have not been as disrespetful as some might think they could have been regarding the deaths due to COVID of anti-vaxxers. There may have been some tongue in cheek twitter comments in the early days about those famous and fallen who refused to believe COVID was real but for the most part, not a lot of vitriol. Take the recent death of Meat Loaf who was known to be anti-vaxx on the grounds of being a patriotic pro-freedom "American" (and also known as an avid Trump supporter). Tributes poured in from fans, fellow musicians and actors, and journalist from around the world despite the fact that he died of COVID. 

Aristotleded24

It is hatred of the unvaccinated that is being fomented, plain and simple. When there are fewer and fewer places the unvaccinated can legally go, if they can't visit loved ones in the hospital, job and educational opportunities, and even when world leaders openly say they want to antagonize the unvaccinated (I'm looking at you Macron), it's clearly about power and control and not public health.

As for catuionary tales? We know that covid can kill people. It's all the media has talked about, as if suddenly it is the only cause of death, misery and suffering in the world. I get that some people are scared of the virus. That does not obligate anyone else to feel the same way. We have different emotional responses to things. Some of us want to live cautiously, and some are comfortable taking the risks. Deal with it. Either live and let live, or society is going to fall apart.

JKR

Healthy societies put the interest of society as a whole before the interests of individuals who are unable to see beyond their personal perspectives and interests. This may explain why you seem to be unable to understand why societies around the world aren't kowtowing to your personal perspective regarding how Covid-19 should be dealt with.

Pondering

It is hatred of the unvaccinated that is being fomented, plain and simple. When there are fewer and fewer places the unvaccinated can legally go, if they can't visit loved ones in the hospital, job and educational opportunities, and even when world leaders openly say they want to antagonize the unvaccinated (I'm looking at you Macron), it's clearly about power and control and not public health.

Macron is one man. I don't think most people hate the unvaccinated. We just don't want to take the chance of being exposed to them and becoming carriers even if we don't get sick because most of us don't want to become typhoid Mary.

I am not comfortable taking either risk and it seems that is true of the grand majority of people. The unvaccinated have to live with the consequences of their choice. One of those consequences is that the rest of us are not comfortable being exposed to the unvaccinated. We have a right not to be exposed to the known danger in our workplaces.

It would not be logical for everyone who is vaccinated to stay home to avoid the unvaccinated. That leaves barring the unvaccinated from places where they would expose others. 

The unvaccinated are not driven by an altruistic desire to protect others. Altruism is a choice. However, given that they are not driven by altruism I am not inspired to feel altruistic towards them. It's no skin off my nose if their lives are uncomfortable and limited. Why should I care? They don't.

eastnoireast

[quote=Pondering]

The unvaccinated are not driven by an altruistic desire to protect others. Altruism is a choice. However, given that they are not driven by altruism I am not inspired to feel altruistic towards them. It's no skin off my nose if their lives are uncomfortable and limited. Why should I care? They don't.

that's a piece of work, pondering.

eastnoireast

speaking of covid projections, this looks about right, except it's missing the "start a war as distraction" part.

Lockdownwatch "Mass Formation Psychosis" MB  Retweeted

Ben Rickert   @Ben__Rickert

Jan 22

Government Exit Strategy:

- Claim pandemic is over

- Praise vaccines & the vaccinated

- Hide jab injuries & deaths

- Quietly withdraw jabs

- Release small lots of truth to regain credibility

- Keep COVID act for future use

- Transition to new narrative (i.e. economic collapse)

 

JKR

When the pandemic is over the public will heave a huge sigh of relief and be thankful that vaccines were able to save hundreds of millions of lives. Most people will see how following science is important to human progress. People will also see how human selfishness is a great impediment to human progress. Many people will also see how society has become very vulnerable to the spread of lies and their resultant conspiracy theories like the conspiracy theories the anti-vaxxers spread.

MegB

Aristotleded24 wrote:
JKR wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

From people who claim to care about "the greater good," celebrating someone's tragic death and blaming them for bringing it on themselves. This is despicable and vile. It's on the level of Fred Phelp's going around the country with his protests whenever there was a tragedy. How low this community has sunk.

When vocal anti-vaxxers die from Covid people shouldn’t be surprised when their mostly preventable demises are used as cautionary tales.

You mean the same way fundamentalist Christians in the 1980s used deaths from AIDS as a cautionary tale about the dangers of drug use and gay sex? After all, those things are technically choices that if the person didn't do then they wouldn't have died from AIDS.

Besides, why do you care so much what choices and risks other people take when it comes to their own health?


Using a false equivalency at the expense of the AIDS-devastated gay community to prop up your anti-vax position is a new low for you. You're done.

Pondering

JKR wrote:
<p>When the pandemic is over the public will heave a huge sigh of relief&nbsp;and be thankful that vaccines were able to save hundreds of millions of lives. Most people will see how following science is important to human progress. People will also see how human selfishness is a great impediment to human progress. Many people will also see how society has become very vulnerable to the spread of lies and their resultant conspiracy theories like the conspiracy theories the anti-vaxxers spread.</p>

Well said. Freedom includes the freedom of association, or lack thereof. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association
Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria. It can be described as the right of a person coming together with other individuals to collectively express, promote, pursue and/or defend common interests.[1] Freedom of association is both an individual right and a collective right, guaranteed by all modern and democratic legal systems, including the United States Bill of Rights, article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights, section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and international law, including articles 20 and 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 22 of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work by the International Labour Organization also ensures these rights.

Having said that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity

Bodily integrity is the inviolability of the physical body and emphasizes the importance of personal autonomyself-ownership, and self-determination of human beings over their own bodies. In the field of human rights, violation of the bodily integrity of another is regarded as an unethical infringement, intrusive, and possibly criminal.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

That's a very important principle or value or whatever you want to call it. Technically no one is being forced to be vaccinated. From a practical standpoint they are. 

But then I circle back to the right of the vaccinated to avoid exposure as much as possible. At this point in time vaccination is our only way forward. Letting it rip is not an option. If politicians could keep everything open they would do it in a heartbeat. 

We have two years experience. This is a necessary health measure. Even if our health care system were stronger it would still be necessary. It doesn't make sense for everyone who doesn't want to be exposed to the unvaccinated to stay home. 

That is where the resentment is coming from. The vaccinated want our freedom. We want to socialize without risking covid. Vaccine mandates are not 100% effective as the vaccinated can catch and pass it on however viral loads are much smaller so even if you catch it it will be a lighter dose which does matter. 

eastnoireast

MegB wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:
JKR wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

From people who claim to care about "the greater good," celebrating someone's tragic death and blaming them for bringing it on themselves. This is despicable and vile. It's on the level of Fred Phelp's going around the country with his protests whenever there was a tragedy. How low this community has sunk.

When vocal anti-vaxxers die from Covid people shouldn’t be surprised when their mostly preventable demises are used as cautionary tales.

You mean the same way fundamentalist Christians in the 1980s used deaths from AIDS as a cautionary tale about the dangers of drug use and gay sex? After all, those things are technically choices that if the person didn't do then they wouldn't have died from AIDS.

Besides, why do you care so much what choices and risks other people take when it comes to their own health?


Using a false equivalency at the expense of the AIDS-devastated gay community to prop up your anti-vax position is a new low for you. You're done.

how is this comment "at the expense of the AIDS-devastated gay community" ? soiled by the mere proximity to the unclean?

i would suggest that fauci, who presided over said AIDS crisis, might be a better target for your scorn.

also; it is my understanding that a24 is anti-mandate. there's a difference.

JKR

eastnoireast wrote:

how is this comment "at the expense of the AIDS-devastated gay community" ? soiled by the mere proximity to the unclean?

You really cannot see how that post was disrespectful to the gay community?

josh

Besides, why do you care so much what choices and risks other people take when it comes to their own health?

Would not care if it were not a serious communicable disease.

Pondering

eastnoireast][quote=Pondering wrote:

The unvaccinated are not driven by an altruistic desire to protect others. Altruism is a choice. However, given that they are not driven by altruism I am not inspired to feel altruistic towards them. It's no skin off my nose if their lives are uncomfortable and limited. Why should I care? They don't.

that's a piece of work, pondering.


So answer the question. The unvaccinated are unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good. Their attitude is individualistic.

So in this regard, I am equally individualistic. The unvaccinated are of no concern to me personally so why should I care ?

eastnoireast

Pondering][quote=eastnoireast wrote:
Pondering wrote:

The unvaccinated are not driven by an altruistic desire to protect others. Altruism is a choice. However, given that they are not driven by altruism I am not inspired to feel altruistic towards them. It's no skin off my nose if their lives are uncomfortable and limited. Why should I care? They don't.

that's a piece of work, pondering.


So answer the question. The unvaccinated are unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good. Their attitude is individualistic.

So in this regard, I am equally individualistic. The unvaccinated are of no concern to me personally so why should I care ?

The unvaccinated are unwilling to be sacrificed to assuage your neurosis.

JKR

 

It's very sad that Covid has taken the life of Meat Loaf.

 

Howard Stern Blames Meatloaf’s Covid Death on ‘Weird F*cking Cult’, Calls on Family to Speak Out on Vaccines; Mediaite; January 25, 2022

--------

“Poor Meat Loaf got sucked into some weird fucking cult,” Stern said on the latest edition of his SiriusXM radio show. “And somehow really believed that — he made a statement, ‘I’d rather die a free man than take that vaccine.’ And now he’s dead!”

Stern then called on his family to come out in support of vaccines following the singer’s death. “I wish the family would come forward and say, ‘Ya know, when Meat Loaf was laying there in the hospital and he couldn’t breathe, he said, ‘I made a mistake. I should have taken the vaccine.’ Like all these anti-vaxxers, they all say, ‘I made a mistake.'”

--------

Pondering

The unvaccinated are unwilling to be sacrificed to assuage your neurosis.

Then we are even so no problem. Everyone in it for themselves. The rest of us are unwilling to be sacrificed to satisfy anti-vaxers and libertarians. There's more of us so we win. 

 

JKR

Looking at recent hospital stats the unvaccinated are being manipulated to sacrifice the lives of many people including themselves on the alter of right wing political manipulation. Each day it seems around another 200 Canadians are dying mostly unnecessarily because of anti-vax lunacy.

JKR

eastnoireast][quote=Pondering][quote=eastnoireast wrote:

The unvaccinated are unwilling to be sacrificed to assuage your neurosis.

The unvaccinated are unwilling to sacrifice short term gratification for long term benefit.

eastnoireast

JKR][quote=eastnoireast][quote=Pondering wrote:
eastnoireast wrote:

The unvaccinated are unwilling to be sacrificed to assuage your neurosis.

The unvaccinated are unwilling to sacrifice short term gratification for long term benefit.

yeah, the un-clean are like that. visionless, reactive sugar-rush addicts.

JKR

You may be right.

Pondering

Smartass lol

eastnoireast

i doubt this trend is going to change. 

-

 

https://twitter.com/awudrick/status/1488173183614259206

 

Aaron Wudrick   @awudrick

 

I assume that this means all those people who relied on majority public support as the primary justification for restrictions will now accept their repeal. Right?

 

Angus Reid  @AngusReid   21h

Majority of Canadians (54%) now say it's time to end Covid restrictions and leave responsibility for isolation to those at risk. This is up from 40% in early January.

Show this thread

 

Pondering

Most restrictions are provincial not federal.  I am in favor of politicians following their population's preferences. Having said that the question is overbroad and is timed to take advantage of the numbers improving and the high vaccination rate. 

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