How to balance sex addict and sex worker rights?

Unionist wrote:

I think advertising of sexual services should include mandatory nutritional information.

Why?

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

Should the advertizing of sexual services be better regulated to ensure that it provide educational advertizing at least equal in quality to that found on cigarette packages? Any thoughts on this?

There's pretty robust evidence that smoking cigarettes regularly is likely to create a dependence on nicotine.

Is there similarly robust evidence that having sex regularly is likely to make us into sex addicts?  Remember, the vast majority of people who have sex aren't doing so through the back pages of NOW Magazine.  If having sex turns people into sex addicts then we're going to need a whole lot more than some kind of new regulation of escort ads to stop that.  Warning labels on everyone's genitals, maybe?

 

No, sex is not addictive in itself, silly twit. However, those that have difficulty with emotional bonding will sometimes find it difficult to have sex with someone to whom they are emotionally attached. While this can lead to compulsive sexual avoidance, when combined with depression, PTSD, OCD, or bipolar disorder, it can lead to a person turning to sex with strangers to medicate the pain, which can temporarily work through the release of dopamine which becomes associated with the behaviour over time which can then lead to sexually compulsive behaviour over time. Sex addiction usually goes hand in hand with compulsive sexual avoidance, and there is increased evidence of this. Some anecdotal evidence has found that some men who would pay for sex would find themselves incapable of having sex with the same woman for free once a relationship developed due to his fear of emotional intimacy with her, the money being a psychological way to make the transaction as psychologically commercial and emotionally distant as possible. Sex adicts will often be emotionally distant from loved ones too. Increased sexual behaviour separate from emotional intimacy only further separates sex from emotion in the brain. It also tends to escalate over time just like a drug addiction.

I don't know if you have ever heard of gambling addiction, Internet addiction, or porn addiction, but process addictions are real even if no chemical is consumed. Don't forget the brain can produce it's own chemicals in association with certain behaviours. Also, if you know how to use Google, you could search sex addiction to see what it is.

There is a public health concern. It can contribute to the spread of STI's, break families apart wich in turn affects the mental health of all dependents, and can also harm the mental and phusical health of sex workers and the mental, physical, and financial health of clients, among many other factors to consider In fact, it poses a greater public health threat than smoking in relative terms. Generally speaking, cigarettes won't break families apart nor potentially put workers in the industry in harm's way.

I have been diagnosed with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder), and bipolar disorder. My own sexually compulsive behaviour began about a year after my divorce and a couple of suicide attempts, followed by a few bad choices that led me along this path for years, though I had suffered at least depression and maybe some PTSD, OCD, and bipolar disorder since my childhood. Little had I realized until I'd started therapy that my compulsive sexual avoidance during the latter stages of my marriage had themselves been warning signs even though I had never cheated on my wife.

I have been officially diagnosed with neither sex addiction nor Internet addiction, not because my therapist had not acknowledged them, but rather since he had concluded that they were not the primary problems, but rather outward manifestations of the others for which he had officially diagnosed me, though he did recognize them both as problematic in themselves none the less. He recommended that I download a Screentime app to help me to control my obsessive Internet use, which I have done so as to limit myself to a maximum of 30 minutes of Internet use a day on my cell phone aside from one of my e-mail apps, a chat app, and a translation app. I had never even considered that such an app existed previously.
He had also recommended that I attend SAA meetings, where I'd learnt how others had used various forms of meditation and mind exercises, and some even chastity devices, to control their sexually compulsive behaviours. I'd applied some of these remedies to effect, and regret only that I had not known of all of this much earlier. I'd learnt of sex therapy only about 4 months ago quite by accident but had not previously been able to imagine that any of this kind of support existed. I'd first learnt of the chastity cage online as I'd started reading up on BDSM as my behaviour had begun to escalate into the early stages of masochism (paying a woman to give me to drink directly from her urine; and contemplating seeing an escort with a large sum of money in my wallet and a barber's razor blade, paying for a standard asexual massage, lending her the blade, and informing her of the money in the wallet, as a variation on Russian roulette), and that is when I'd begun to see the cage as a potential preventative device for my sexually compulsive behaviour. I'd learnt of sex therapy as I was searching for a regular therapist online. One reason I had not seen a therapist in the early stages of my addiction was due to feelings of shame and guilt along with the fact that I could not imagine that as bad as the problem was, that it might be a symptom of something else, and that only will power alone could teach me to control it.
Strangely enough, never had I expected to walk into his office to discuss my sexually compulsive behaviour to find him eventually diagnose me with PTSD, OCD, and mild symptoms of bipolar disorder instead and questioning me about other behavioural or chemical addictions I might be suffering.
Though I recognize that some here have probably never heard of PTSD, OCD, and process or behavioural addictions (e.g. gambling, internet, porn, sex, etc), and can mock in your ignorance, the fact that you know nothing about them does not negate their existence in any way.
Additionally, just because most men (and sometimes women) who hook up whether at the bar or online might never develop an obsession with the behaviour, it does not mean that no one does. To oppose the requirement that pages advertizing sexual services also advertize remedies for sex addiction (even if it is only a symptom of something else) because most clients are in no way addicted to them would be equal to opposing regulation of access to online porn or educational billboards pertaining to gambling addiction just because most users never become addicted to them either.Additionally, even if one couldn't care less about clients, helping them out of the industry can help sex workers too. Though it's true that a masochistic client presents a greater risk of physical harm to himself than to the worker, he still presents a significantly high risk of mental harm to the worker. There is already evidence that PTSD is contagious. Since you can't understand the concept of behavioural addictions as distinct from chemical addictions, I'm sure you also can't understand social contagion as distinct from viral contagion. There is evidence that parents will often infect their children with PTSD by acting out their trauma, sometimes unwittingly, in their interactions with their children. This is common among not only parents who'd suffered the experiences of the residential school system, but also soldiers, police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and other emergency responders. A sufferer can also infect another adult through his acting out of his trauma too. For instance, some mental health specialists hired by the military and who had never seen combat had developed PTSD just by being surrounded by other sufferers and interacting with them on a regular basis.
When we consider how abnormal it is to pay for sexual services, we can imagine a high percentage of clients suffering mental health problems, including PTSD. One statistic showed that a high percentage of high-end sex workers also suffer PTSD, some also suffering other mental health problems too. We can therefore imagine a sex worker being exposed to PTSD and other mental health problems on a regular basis too.
Add to that that a sufferer whose mental health problem manifests itself differently might present a physical danger to the sex worker too.
As an ironic twist of fate, I am now in a relationship (now a long-distance relationship) with a former sex worker who has also been diagnosed with moderate PTSD even though she worked from indoor 'safety' (though she was diagnosed prior to doing that work for a short time due to financial desperation). She'd described one client suddenly trying to strangle her until she'd slapped him and he came to realize what he was doing and left. Another client got into a tugging match with her. Since she is not a Canadian citizen and speaks neither English nor French (we communicate in her language), she did not want to call the police out of fear that it could prevent her from returning to Canada later.
In fact, the way the relationship started was when I'd learnt that she was not a local resident and so offered to pay her a few hundred dollars just to go back home and hold the keys to my chastity device for over a year with the intent that I would never need to see her again, so sick was I of my compulsive behaviour. I'd learnt of the existence of such a device not long before that. This was not long before I'd finally seen a therapist and was still unaware that I suffered PTSD, OCD, and bipolar disorder.
She accepted the keys but refused payment. I felt guilty so started buying her dinner to thank her, she then wanted to continue to see me, and it progressed from there.
Had I been aware of sex therapy, SAA, etc. long ago, I could have begun the recovery process long ago too. This would have gotten me out of the industry long ago, which in turn would likely have protected sex workers from the potential mental harm, however subtle it may have been, to which I (along with probably many other clients in need of mental health help I'm sure) had been exposing them.

I don't see how this is not at the very least a public mental health problem? And since an escort website would likely receive highly concentrated traffict precicely from people with mental health problems, you would think this is something the government would sant to target.

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

Struggling wrote:

Unionist wrote:

I think advertising of sexual services should include mandatory nutritional information.

Why?

 

Struggling wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Including a clear warning about Genetically Modified Orgasms.

What are those?

 

They're winding you up, mate.

I was being sarcastic in my response. I figure there's no point taking them seriously in a disability issues forum if they know nothing of mental health.

Pondering wrote:

Struggling wrote:

I don't see how this is not at the very least a public mental health problem? And since an escort website would likely receive highly concentrated traffict precicely from people with mental health problems, you would think this is something the government would sant to target.

The government doesn't care about mental health. They have starved the system. Gambling places would be an excellent outreach opportunity too and the government even runs them.

Sex workers have have their own struggles, including mental health issues of many of them for multiple reasons including the illegality of prostitution which is a stressor. While many are willing workers many others are not even if they are not being physically forced. The community as a whole is overwhelmed by the needs of its own members. On an individual basis some sex workers might be concerned for individual people with sex addiction but in the grand scheme of things prostitutes have no more reason to be concerned over sex addiction than beer companies are over alcoholism.

In an ideal world, your idea is great, but we are far from an ideal world. Sex workers are dealing with new legislation which makes it illegal for publications to advertise sexual services. If advertising were legal sex workers might be sympathetic to your idea but right now it makes no sense. Advertising is currently illegal therefore your ideas can't be implemented. Philosophical discussions about war etc. can be fun but not for people embroiled in one in real life.

Right now sex workers are going through a multitude of negative emotions over the new laws. Even though they knew it was coming it is still a huge disappointment for them. It looks like they might not be able to mount a legal challenge without collecting new evidence of harm because the new laws are so different from the old ones even if some of the outcomes are identical. Sex workers just don't have room for other people's problems at this time. That sex workers have contact with mentally ill people, especially sex addicts, doesn't make it an issue central to sex worker's lives. Other problems loom far larger: poverty, violence, their own mental health issues. Lack of legitimacy causes financial problems when trying to get credit or a morgage and stigma makes life particularly difficult for parents. The issues of sex addicts really don't rate, particularly when the solution proposed can't happen until or unless prostitution is legalized, or at least the advertising of it.

Thanks for the response, Pondering, though this leads us to some questions:

1. Plese correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not prostitution per se that is illegal, but the purchase thereof. That would make it only half illegal.

2. If I understand the law correctly, a prostitute is allowed to advertize her own services, just not someone else's. I seem to remember one newspaper challenging the law on that front and so continues to publish such ads. The following seems to confirm it too, bearing in mind in this case it might also be an international jurisdictional matter (trigger warning for some):

http://montreal.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/

Today's ads, long after legislation has passed.

Also, if they are concerned for their safety (and I assume that by safety is meant safety not only from physical but also mental harm), then would we not want to get anyone suffering mental health problems out of the industry, regardless of whether it's a seller or a buyer?

I do agree with much of what you say otherwise though.

Slumberjack wrote:

Does it make sense for anyone to be suggesting that another person's physical sovereignty is up for debate because someone else might be addicted to sex?  Why is the discussion being led down that path?  To have a stop put to it presumably.  Here we get to denigrate addictions, question if they even exist.  Hello?  Food and sex addictions don't exist?

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-28252612

Science trumps opinion, Slumberjack.

Sineed wrote:

Slumberjack wrote:

Sineed wrote:

As someone who works in addictions, I have always been bothered by the labels "sex addiction" or "food addiction," because it doesn't make any sense that natural physiological processes can be inherently addictive.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  They're not labels per se, but laypersons (non-professional) terms for mental disorders associated with eating and sex.

I suggest you scroll upwards and re-read Struggling's explanation of "sex addiction," in which he discusses how the addictive behaviour for a sex addict is a symptom of underlying psychological problems and not a disease in and of itself. These labels are important not only in helping people name their problems and address them appropriately, but also it helps debunk popular misconceptions.

True, in the popular culture, people refer to "food" and "sex" addictions. But food and sex are not inherently addictive the way cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine, cannabis (for some people), and many psychoactive prescription drugs are able to induce a physical tolerance and an addiction simply by using these to excess. The food or sex "addiction" is a symptom rather than the cause. It's important to make this distinction in order to treat people properly.

Unionist, I agree that if Struggling is saying that sex addicts have a "right" to sex, that's not compatible with Rabble values. But I'm not sure that's what Struggling is saying.

Probably a better term than sex addiction would be compulsive sexual disorder, which can ironically include compulsive sexual avoidance. So yes, sex addiction is just a short short layman's two-word four-syllable way to express these varying problems.

Also, just to clarify, the point was not to say that sex addicts should have a right to sex, but rather on the contrary they should have a right to better access educational resources concerning remedies for sex addiction. A sex addict who is aware that he has a problem but has never even heard of the term, let alone been made aware of remedies to help him learn to control his behaviour, and who has for whatever reason never considered that remedies even exist beyond simple will power might never even consider seeking help since he already believes a priori that it does not exist. Advertizing available remedies where he is looking (i.e. on escort websites and massage parlours for example) would make him aware of such remedies and so help him leave the industry. Certainly the sex worker does not have a right to the body of the sex addict if we want to look at it that way.