Convoy 2022

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WWWTT

jerrym][quote=WWWTT wrote:
jerrym wrote:

Let's not forget that an interfaith group, Canadians United Against Hate, that planned to commenorate in Ottawa the anniversary of the Quebec City Mosque shooting cancelled this today because of the potential for violence with the small but exteme elements of the convoy. One demonstration should not lead to the cancellation of another because of fear of violence. 

So what are you implying? No one else can protest? This is called divisional politics. You are trying to imply that some people are more important than others. You know who was really good at that? The British empire. Don't believe me? See India Pakistan relations.

You either misread what I wrote or deliberately distorted it. "One demonstration should not lead to the cancellation of another because of fear of violence" means that both should be able to occur on the same day at Parliament with one demonstration having to decide to not hold their demonstration because a small minority from the other demonstration have been issuing threats of right-wing violence.


No sorry you misread the phrase "divisional politics" Nice try to shift the narrative away. I remember seeing clips a few weeks ago of Justin doing an interview in French where he suggests that people who do not want to inject their bodies with a foreign substance (demonized as anti vaxers), suggesting that some are white supremist or racists. I found this to be a real ironic statement from a proven white racist (blackface brownface) I guess, according the the now common and well documented narrative of the ICM, white racists are only the people the ICM wants to marginilize and demonize. And not the known proven and documented white racists that support the ICM narrative. Divisional politics. Karl and a couple other rabble writers have become real good at this!

JKR

Confederate truckers in Ottawa!

JKR

More flags at the convoy.

 

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Pondering
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NDPP

In Support and Solidarity: I Am Proud to be 'Anti-Vax' Too! No to Justin Trudeau! No to Mandates/Passports!

I don't support vaccine mandates. What goes into my body should be my choice, not the Canadian state's. That there are others of various political persuasions and affiliations that share this view, should not be surprising nor does it negate the position. We are many...

Led By Jeremy Corbyn, the British Left Opposes Vaccine Mandates as Anti-Worker and Repressive

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/led-by-jeremy-corbyn-the-british

"...Thus, the operational definition of the term ['anti-vax'] has become: one who questions any of the decrees of public health authorities on any matters, or who believes that adult citizens should retain the choice to decide for themselves whether to be vaccinated.

In other words, the term 'anti-vax' now means nothing other than: one who questions any policies adopted by state officials in the name of fighting COVID.

Unfortunately for the liberal left which has constructed this manipulative and coercive framework, this now requires that the term 'anti-vax' be applied to one of the international left's most beloved political figures: former Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn.

They must also now apply the term to the most admired left-wing members of the British Parliament along with leading trade unions in the UK. That is because the British Left - not just Corbyn and leftist MPs but also leading labor unions - have voted to emphatically oppose vaccine mandates and vaccine passports on the ground that 1) it is immoral and profoundly anti-worker to fire health-care front-line workers for refusing a vaccine they have not been convinced is safe and effective, and 2) persuasion is a far more effective and ethical means of administering public health policy than coercion, dictate and punishment..."

Respect and Consent Not Coercion/Compulsion!

nicky

Not surprising that you are an anti Vaxer , NDPP.

There is a certain ideological consistency between you MAGA types on vaccines and the invasion of Ukraine that you also favour.

You proclaim your right to infect others with Covid much as you support Putin's right to infect Ukraine with his right wing dominance. Both are matters of "control."

Too bad for you and your fellow Putinescas in the convoy that the Ottawa weather is so frigid today. Much like what met Hitler and Napoleon at Moscow. Keep warm in your 18 wheeler.

josh

NDPP wrote:

In Support and Solidarity: I Am Proud to be 'Anti-Vax' Too! No to Justin Trudeau! No to Mandates/Passports!

I don't support vaccine mandates. What goes into my body should be my choice, not the Canadian state's. That there are others of various political persuasions and affiliations that share this view, should not be surprising nor does it negate the position. We are many...

Led By Jeremy Corbyn, the British Left Opposes Vaccine Mandates as Anti-Worker and Repressive

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/led-by-jeremy-corbyn-the-british

"...Thus, the operational definition of the term ['anti-vax'] has become: one who questions any of the decrees of public health authorities on any matters, or who believes that adult citizens should retain the choice to decide for themselves whether to be vaccinated.

In other words, the term 'anti-vax' now means nothing other than: one who questions any policies adopted by state officials in the name of fighting COVID.

Unfortunately for the liberal left which has constructed this manipulative and coercive framework, this now requires that the term 'anti-vax' be applied to one of the international left's most beloved political figures: former Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn.

They must also now apply the term to the most admired left-wing members of the British Parliament along with leading trade unions in the UK. That is because the British Left - not just Corbyn and leftist MPs but also leading labor unions - have voted to emphatically oppose vaccine mandates and vaccine passports on the ground that 1) it is immoral and profoundly anti-worker to fire health-care front-line workers for refusing a vaccine they have not been convinced is safe and effective, and 2) persuasion is a far more effective and ethical means of administering public health policy than coercion, dictate and punishment..."

Respect and Consent Not Coercion/Compulsion!

As I understand it, except for possibly health care workers, these are vax or test mandates. Which seems a perfectly reasonable compromise to me. As to health care workers, since the risk of transmission to patients would appear to be the highest, requiring them to be vaccinated also appears reasonable and prudent. First, do no harm to patients.

Pondering

Unfortunately for the liberal left which has constructed this manipulative and coercive framework, this now requires that the term 'anti-vax' be applied to one of the international left's most beloved political figures: former Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn.

I have never subscribed to the notion of having to support every single position a politician takes in order to support a politician electorally. If that were the case I would never support anyone. I don't belong to a politcal tribe. 

JKR

JKR

Ottawa convoy protestors bucket list:
✔️ denigrate tomb of unknown soldier
✔️ deface Terry Fox statue
✔️ display confederate and Nazi flags
✔️ publicly urinate on Parliament Hill
✔️ get endorsement of Conservative Party Leader and Donald Trump
✔️ steal food from homeless

Pondering

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-homeless-shelter-staff-harassed-by-conv...

"Shepherds of Good Hope had no desire to comment on this protest. However, we felt compelled to correct disinformation on protest communications channels that we were 'happy to feed the patriots.' This was not the case," the statement said, in response to comments made on social media by some of the protesters.

The accounts should be traced and the owners charged with harassment.This is like sending people to someone's home for a party who isn't having one. 

eastnoireast

Jeff Wells  @JeffWellsRigInt  1h

"This is the first time I feel proud to be a Canadian."

sikh trucker

https://twitter.com/i/status/1487882022844448769

eastnoireast

Keean Bexte  @TheRealKeean   21h

Hey Justin, don't worry, we are only going to stay for 2 weeks. Trust us.

eastnoireast

Unacceptable Buffy - Behind the Maple Curtain  @BuffySu58183737   17h

I wish some day people would care more about our Prime Minister in blackface, spouting hate speech, and creating a segregated society than they do about 3 obvious plants with evil flags at the biggest freedom protest in Canadian history. #FreedomConvoy2022

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https://twitter.com/eugeneppc/status/1487593096271757315

Candice Malcolm  @CandiceMalcolm   17h

True North will pay $1,000 to anyone who can help identify the person flying the Nazi flag. Who is he or she? Where is this photo taken? Are there any other photos, aside from this single shot making the rounds? Pls don’t doxx. DMs are open. Thank you

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eastnoireast

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1487149584958861313

Dimitri Lascaris  @dimitrilascaris

Genuinely listening to those with whom we disagree requires us to contemplate the possibility that they are right and we are wrong. If we are not prepared at least to contemplate that possibility, then we are not really listening to them. We’re simply engaging in a charade.

JKR

eastnoireast wrote:

"This is the first time I feel proud to be a Canadian."

Sounds like these people have issues with feeling shame!

JKR

eastnoireast wrote:

Hey Justin, don't worry, we are only going to stay for 2 weeks. Trust us.

And Trudeau will be prime minister for at least 2 more years.

JKR

eastnoireast wrote:

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1487149584958861313

Genuinely listening to those with whom we disagree requires us to contemplate the possibility that they are right and we are wrong. If we are not prepared at least to contemplate that possibility, then we are not really listening to them. We’re simply engaging in a charade.

The anti-vaxxers don’t seem to be able to listen to anyone including nurses, doctors, and the 85.%+ of Canadians who are supporting our health care system to end the pandemic. The 85%+ who support vaccines have bent over backwards trying to understand the thinking of anti-vaxxers who seem to only be able to consider themselves.

Pondering

eastnoireast wrote:

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1487149584958861313

Dimitri Lascaris  @dimitrilascaris

Genuinely listening to those with whom we disagree requires us to contemplate the possibility that they are right and we are wrong. If we are not prepared at least to contemplate that possibility, then we are not really listening to them. We’re simply engaging in a charade.

We are not engaging in a charade because we aren't listening to them. They have nothing new to say.

They believe vaccination is a personal health decision and vaccine mandates are an infringement on their rights.

Some think the mandates and lockdowns have failed because Covid is still with us.

We disagree. We aren't going to come to some sort of compromise.

kropotkin1951

I think the government has failed on COVID and that the Trudeau Liberals have sold us down the river to big pharma. However I have had two jabs and support government measures to deal with pandemics not the libertarian rights advocated by these assholes.

Our system is broken and these people are frustrated because of it unfortunately they have none of the solutions only vitriol. As one of our pro-trucker posters above noted China took a different approach. While it has not mandated vaccines it has mandated testing. Of course when the city officials tell a city of ten million people they have to be tested today they all line up and they test millions a day instead of being over whelmed like in Canada when we need to test thousands a day.

NDPP

CBC Suggests Russia Is Behind the Trucker Convoys in Canada (and vid)

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1487675345453170689

'Canada is the country most like Ukraine' - P Poroshenko

https://youtu.be/XvGmOZ5T6_Y

JKR

Putin driving down Sussex Drive!

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There's a saying in Germany, if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

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NDPP

Would that also hold true for say, a deputy pm and the rest of the Trudeau cabinet on Ukraine?

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Douglas Fir Premier

It'll be interesting to see whether the protest will start being policed differently (by which I mean, at all) now that the weekend's over and schools and downtown office workers are about to be affected more directly.

Undoubtedly, a huge part of the reason for the kid-glove treatment of the protestors is about white privilege. But I also think there's a more local context which is perhaps an even more worrying harbinger of creeping fascism than settler-colonial racism.

Given the blanket media coverage, I think there's this image of Ottawa being under seige by convoy protestors. What might not realize is just how unaffected most of Ottawa is. It's about a 35-minute walk from my house to Parliament Hill. I reside in the same urban ward as the Rideau Centre, the major downtown mall that shut down Saturday after it was overrun by aggressive unmasked protestors. And yet, if I had avoided all media over the weekend, I might have forgotten the whole thing was even happening. I didn't see any trucks travelling in packs. Didn't hear any honking. Didn't see or hear any fireworks. Didn't see any flags or protest signs. It was actually a quite peaceful weekend in my neighbourhood.

Most of the disruption is happening in Somerset Ward, a ward currently represented by Catherine McKenney... a popular, queer, feminist, non-binary, left-wing councillor who's allied themself with racialized victims of police violence, and who's argued for defunding the police. They have announced they're running for mayor in October. I don't think it's a stretch to question whether the police decided to stand back and allow out-of-town protestors to have free rein for a few days to harrass and terrorize the ward with the highest concentration of progressive voters, as both a payback and a warning.

Due to amalgamation imposed on us by Mike Harris, Ottawa is now an enormous, sprawling city that is dominated politically by its rural and suburban wards. Despite their outsized power at council, many rural and suburban voters often display a shocking amount of gleeful contempt for people living within the urban core.

At first - given how little provocation it usually takes before police break out the riot gear - I was wondering why local cops would appear so indifferent to out-of-towners coming in and wreacking havoc in their city. But the thing is, most of them don't live in the affected neighbourhoods. While it is happening to their city, it's - by and large - not happening to people they care about. Instead, they're living vicariously through the protestors. And the reason the city's response has been so flatfooted is because even if the overwhelming majority of residents do not support the convoy, most on city council know that their residents won't hold them accountable as long as the damage and disruption is confined to downtown.

epaulo13

quote:

Most of the disruption is happening in Somerset Ward, a ward currently represented by Catherine McKenney... a popular, queer, feminist, non-binary, left-wing councillor who's allied themself with racialized victims of police violence, and who's argued for defunding the police. They have announced they're running for mayor in October. I don't think it's a stretch to question whether the police decided to stand back and allow out-of-town protestors to have free rein for a few days to harrass and terrorize the ward with the highest concentration of progressive voters, as both a payback and a warning.

..i like how you think!

 

Michael Moriarity

epaulo13 wrote:

quote:

Most of the disruption is happening in Somerset Ward, a ward currently represented by Catherine McKenney... a popular, queer, feminist, non-binary, left-wing councillor who's allied themself with racialized victims of police violence, and who's argued for defunding the police. They have announced they're running for mayor in October. I don't think it's a stretch to question whether the police decided to stand back and allow out-of-town protestors to have free rein for a few days to harrass and terrorize the ward with the highest concentration of progressive voters, as both a payback and a warning.

..i like how you think!

 

Indeed. Thanks for your analysis, DFP.

Pondering

I think it is more likely that they wanted to send the message that they were being reasonable so allowed the truckers to protest for the entire weekend while building public support for ending it. Demonstrators have now organized to protect monuments and stop the hate mongers but it is too late. The damage has been done. 

They can let the protesters stay while insisting the trucks have got to go. There has been lots of talk of the diesel fuel, honking, and blocking of emergency vehicles. 

First they will talk with organizers resonably demanding that the trucks get out of the downtown core. They will of course refuse as they have declared they are staying until they get their way. In other words, having a temper tantrum and trying to be as disruptive as possible because they can't take 'no' for an answer. 

They will then have public support for police moving in and removing the trucks, seizing if need be.  If they are threatened with the trucks being seized most will drive them away. 

Pondering

Lots of clues in here as to what is coming.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-convoy-length-ticke...

The crowds and large vehicles have restricted access to downtown Ottawa, closing businesses, service centres, a COVID-19 vaccine clinic and an elementary school. Horns have honked in protest for parts of four days over neighbourhoods where tens of thousands of people live.

Some organizers say the goal is to create a logistics nightmare for the government and force it to act. They haven't said when the protest will end....

"I asked … why you can't start ticketing [on Queen Elizabeth Driveway], it's far enough away. And they said they'd get on their CB [radio] and there would be another 20 truckers there smashing down the barricade."...

Ottawa paramedics confirmed Monday they had to ask for a police escort this weekend because rocks and verbal abuse were hurled at an ambulance and paramedics....

For protesters who want to leave the city, Ottawa police Chief Peter Sloly said officers want to help ensure they do it safely, and then see who lingers, and why.

Truckers plan to use their trucks to cause havoc. They feel invincible. They are not. So far I am impressed with how law enforcement is handling it but when they decide to move in the truckers better watch out. Great PR for police. 

 

 

 

kropotkin1951

Because these are freedom and democracy protestors they should be able to destroy the bus loop that is nearby and the common areas of the Rideau Center and then storm the parliament buildings. They are totally correct that Trudeau is a corrupt leader in the pockets of the Canadian oligarchy and that we need a new form of government. I don't agree with the type of government they want to end up with but they are freedom and democracy protestors after all so they can be forgiven anything.

 

Douglas Fir Premier

Pondering wrote:
I think it is more likely that they wanted to send the message that they were being reasonable so allowed the truckers to protest for the entire weekend while building public support for ending it.
[...]
They will then have public support for police moving in and removing the trucks, seizing if need be.

OMG, Pondering. There couldn't be more public support for clearing out the trucks than there already is. That sentiment probably crossed the 50% mark by Saturday afternoon, and achieved near-unanimous consensus by Sunday morning when most woke up to the news that a soup kitchen had been shaken down. Residents and businesses in the area have been begging the police and the city to do something ever since.

For most of Saturday, the official line was, "everything's been relatively peaceful... no need to act". On Sunday it shifted to, "we're afraid that if we ticket and tow we'll only make the protestors angry". And during this afternoon's press conference, both the mayor and police chief touted the fact that so far nobody has died as a sign that their handling of the situation has been a success. They're not cleverly and patiently building a consensus. It's abundantly clear to anyone who lives here that they don't want to take any action at all, and are willing to sit on their hands, in hopes that the protest will fizzle out all on its own.

Pondering

Some of those truckers are armed. The trucks themselves can run over cars. Is there even a police vehicle that could stand up to them? They want a minimum number of trucks in the city before they act. There is a border crossing being blocked in Alberta and they aren't doing anything about that (yet) either. 

If a trucker or a cop gets shot or killed they want people saying the police had no choice. These are not ordinary demonstrations. The trucks are there as physical intimidation. 

I have no idea how they are going to manage to physically arrest so many truckers if the truckers decide to lock themselves in their cabs. How would you approach the job? 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ottawa-still-gridlocked-by-proteste...

One vehicle in the convoy has even removed its front wheels, presumably to make it harder to move. The protesters are continuing to honk horns, but are no longer driving around the city.

He may be very sorry he removed the wheels. I hope licence plates are being recorded. Their truck driving licences should be suspended and if they can't be we need to change the law so they can be. They are not normal vehicles. They don't have a right to use them to intimidate citizens and law enforcement. 

If they don't move the truckers should be arrested and their vehicles impounded. That will get their attention. 

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